Retrieve Recall

[WISCO_GSP]

I have a 6 mo old GSP. She is doing very good with all obedience training and beginning level bird training. Just now getting nice in Wisconsin to start training outdoors. I am having an issue with my GSP bringing her Dokken Mallard bumper back to me. During the winter I trained her on a plowed path where she would run get the duck and bring it right back. Now since the snow is melted she goes and gets the bird but runs around with it. She kind of circles me with it wanting me to chase her like its a game. I have just started FF with her. Should I stop with retrieving or place the bird on a rope like the beginning lessons and reel her back in?
Thanks,

[birddogger]

Stop retrieving games while you are FF !!

Charlie

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

I have a 6 mo old GSP. I am having an issue with my GSP bringing her Dokken Mallard bumper back to me. During the winter I trained her on a plowed path where she would run get the duck and bring it right back. Now since the snow is melted she goes and gets the bird but runs around with it. She kind of circles me with it wanting me to chase her like its a game. I have just started FF with her. ,

The interesting thing about posting on a forum such as this is that it's a challenge to comment on a dog you can't see. A video of a training session is always helpful. The other thing is that everyone is in a somewhat different situation with their dog.

What I read into this post is that you're trying to rush things. Yard work and recall are not completed, and you are starting the ff process without a solid foundation. If you intend to continue retrieving games I would strongly recommend using a retrieving corridor. You can construct one out of snow fence and t posts. Complete recall and collar conditioning before commencing with the ff. When the dog is ready for the ff use a proven method like Smartfetch. Don't experiment with retrieving half way through the ff program. Experimenting to see if the dog will retrieve is not a good plan.

Good luck,
Nate

[EvanG]

Stop retrieving games while you are FF !!

Charlie

That's excellent advice. The chances of something going wrong are far greater than something going right.

EvanG

[DonF]

I fool with Stormy just a bit now and then with retrieving. I use a small yellow tennis ball. He loves to chase it. It never get's thrown unless he's on his check cord. Check cord is a great tool, pup always come's to you, even if it doesn't want to! I wouldn't worry about forcing him, he's retrieving. He's just doing it on his terms.

[WISCO_GSP]

I fool with Stormy just a bit now and then with retrieving. I use a small yellow tennis ball. He loves to chase it. It never get's thrown unless he's on his check cord. Check cord is a great tool, pup always come's to you, even if it doesn't want to! I wouldn't worry about forcing him, he's retrieving. He's just doing it on his terms.

Would you say it is better to have the dog on a leash or have the duck attached to a cord? Is there any difference to the dog?

[EvanG]

I would say actually training him to come when called is far superior to either one regardless of breed.

EvanG

[birddogger]

I fool with Stormy just a bit now and then with retrieving. I use a small yellow tennis ball. He loves to chase it. It never get's thrown unless he's on his check cord. Check cord is a great tool, pup always come's to you, even if it doesn't want to! I wouldn't worry about forcing him, he's retrieving. He's just doing it on his terms.

Would you say it is better to have the dog on a leash or have the duck attached to a cord? Is there any difference to the dog?

Keep the pup on a cc if you decide to continue the fetch games but , if you do, stop with the FF training for now. For a GSP, I would wait another 2 or 3 months for force fetching anyway. Also, if you do decide to FF, make sure you follow a proven program. I would suggest Smart Fetch by Evan Graham if you don't already have it. It is an easy program to understand and follow and requires minimal pressure.

Charlie

[Del Lolo]

Stop retrieves during FF.
While you are doing FF, also concentrate on Obedience.
You said, "She is doing very good with all obedience training" --- I say Balderdash. The dog is not coming to you on the HERE command.
FF + OB at this time.

[RoostersMom]

It's a recall problem, not a retrieve problem. When you say "here," the dog should be hot footing it to you - no matter what she has in her mouth - or doesn't have in there.

Also, I would do no retrieving during FF training - but I also wouldn't FF a 6 month old baby. Others may disagree with my thoughts on age, but that seems awfully young to me for a pointing dog to be going through FF. I agree with FF, and all of my dogs have been properly (I hope) FF'd. But none of them before they were about a year old - almost always after a full hunting season under their belt.

Just my opinion on the age deal. Evan has more experience with this than I do - he may think that age is totally appropriate for a pointing breed.

[DonF]

It's a recall problem with a 6 mo old puppy. If the pup is under control on a check cord, recall isn't a problem, the pup has no choice. I never used one of those doken deals, got a pretty good idea it's an idea sold as a gimmick. Look's like a duck with a head that flops around? I'd loose the thing and use a tennis ball or it sounds like your pup doesn't need to see a ball moving, a training buck. The idea of anything to teach fetch with is to get the dog to go pick up whatever it's sent after. Two guy's I knew years ago in Mont. One taught his dog only to retrieve a dummy and on it's first retrieve it went past the duck, came back and sniffed it and then left it. Dog had no idea what a bird was! Another guy taught his dog to fetch duck decoys. Had his decoy's set out and a duck came in and he shot it and sent the dog. You probably know what happened. Every decoy into the blind and a dead duck left floating!

Forget the impression of a bird, just teach it to retrieve. Then when it's doing well for you, switch it over to a frozen dead birds that's been thawed about 45 min and then to a fresh killed bird. But as long as you play the game your playing with your pup, he'll be content to snub you. Get her on a check cord and take the ability to avoid you away from her. Or if your inclined to force her, you can throw things for her but don't used the fetch command, force fetch works well but I think it's over used anymore. I used to be a strong believer in it but someone ask's about retrieving today and the first words out of a mouth is force fetch. I never enjoyed doing it and dog's i've had that were never forced were as good usually as dogs that were forced.

[WISCO_GSP]

Thank you all for your help. I do have one follow up question.. Have any of you ever seen a stage in your pups growth where they seem bored with any toys or tools used for training? My dog seems only interested in the real thing right now. I want to keep her outside as much as possible but when we are doing any training (that does not involve birds) as soon we come up on a wild bird her attention is glued to finding more of the real thing. I know this is could be more of a obiedience issue but have any of you seen this before? She is still young so the last thing I want to do is pull her attention away from the real thing and have her train. When we are training in the field with the real thing she spot on with commands so I believe this is an attention issue.

[RoostersMom]

I'm not sure how to answer this one, as I don't use any real "tools" in the field for a 6 month old. I take them out, let them run like crazy and find birds - either ones I've put in launchers or wild ones (wild being better). The only real command that my dogs know (in the field) at under a year old is "here." Here means to me immediately, no messing around - right here, right now. That's the only one we "teach" at that age. All the rest is just letting them learn themselves - how to hunt, where to find birds, that birds fly away when they jump in...etc. I do gun-acclimation at 4/5 months old, just so I can take them out to events and hunt with them. But no other real pressures on them. If they want to retrieve, then I encourage it, but don't enforce anything there except for the snappy "here" every time. I guess I try to teach them to turn on their name in the field with a checkcord - but that's about it. I make sure to get a pup that has a natural retrieve and that has seemed to work fine for me with the last 4 dogs.

[DonF]

I'm not sure how to answer this one, as I don't use any real "tools" in the field for a 6 month old. I take them out, let them run like crazy and find birds - either ones I've put in launchers or wild ones (wild being better). The only real command that my dogs know (in the field) at under a year old is "here." Here means to me immediately, no messing around - right here, right now. That's the only one we "teach" at that age. All the rest is just letting them learn themselves - how to hunt, where to find birds, that birds fly away when they jump in...etc. I do gun-acclimation at 4/5 months old, just so I can take them out to events and hunt with them. But no other real pressures on them. If they want to retrieve, then I encourage it, but don't enforce anything there except for the snappy "here" every time. I guess I try to teach them to turn on their name in the field with a checkcord - but that's about it. I make sure to get a pup that has a natural retrieve and that has seemed to work fine for me with the last 4 dogs.

Agreed. Sounds sota of like your pup got introduced really young. I put out just a couple birds in a trap for the pup but he can't point them fast enough to keep me from popping at this age. Couldn't care less about game birds. First off we have a ton of cover here but not many game birds anymore. Love those "bleep" birds though!

[Rod W]

Just now getting nice in Wisconsin to start training outdoors. I am having an issue with my GSP bringing her Dokken Mallard bumper back to me. During the winter I trained her on a plowed path where she would run get the duck and bring it right back. Now since the snow is melted ------------------

What part of Wisconsin are you in---Sounds like you are SOUTH OF THE MASON DIXIE LINE, I'm up north, still 2 feet of snow, -10 degrees nightly, It just won't quit. I just got back from training down in Portage, 200 miles south of here. Pine Island Training Area. Right alongside of the Wis River, all flood plain. The DNR has made it into a great field trial area.