Launchers

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roaniecowpony
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Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:53 am

I have three DT launchers. The basic metal mechanism is decent quality for the purpose. But the weakness seems to be the electronics. They were working fine last summer when I put them back in their original boxes and in a cabinet in my garage. I never got them wet and they've only been used a handful of times. This winter, I went to use them and they were intermittent/unreliable. For the cost of these things, the cheesy electronics are frustrating.

What's the most reliable radio/actuator system on the market?
I'd like to keep the mechanisms since they have side loading doors.
Last edited by roaniecowpony on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Launchers

Post by DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:57 am

Roanie,

I have 4 of the DT launchers. Aside from getting used to holding the button for the correct amount of time and weak batteries, I've never really had a problem with the receivers. I know a few others that have them as well, and invariably the transmitter seems to be the weak link. I sent my transmitter in to DT for repair about 2 years ago, and so far no more problems have occurred.

Nate

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Carolina Gundogs
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Re: Launchers

Post by Carolina Gundogs » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:02 pm

I used the Dogtra for 8 years now with great luck so far. However, if not charged regularly, the rechargable batteries will go bad.
I believe the DT units carry a good name.

Good Luck
TS

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roaniecowpony
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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:24 pm

Nate
I had to send the receivers and transmitter back for repair. Got it all back and they work now. But it concerns me that they failed packed away in their original boxes and having been used lightly and well cared for. If they hiccup again I'm going to look for a change of the electronics. Tritronics receivers look less like a chinese Radio Shack Barbie toy car radio and more up to the job of an outdoor piece of equipment to me.

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Re: Launchers

Post by jczv » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:49 pm

Here's most of an old post I made - I still haven't replaced the electronics on my dt's but will eventually with dogtra or tritonics:

The dogtra and tritronics laucher receiver electronics is superior (solenoid based) to the dt systems and lion country/gun dog supply blII servo motor based system. The cheap servo motors gears strip although cheap to replace if you do it yourself. Essentially you need to be more careful with the servo based design - but they are significantly cheaper.

The quality of the transmitter of the dogtra/tritronics looks high quality like their ecollar transmitters. The transmitter for the DT systems launchers is a cheaply made piece of crap. The buttons wear off, and the contacts do not work consistently. The case and electronics look like something you'd expect in a $5 radio not something they want $125 to replace. I'm actually considering replacing all the electronics on my DT launchers with either tritronics or dogtra instead of buying a 3rd transmitter. I have no idea about (I've never handled or used) the lion country/blII transmitter.

The owner of this website does some good comparisons:

dogtra vs. tritonics
http://www.gundogsupply.com/tri-tronics ... stems.html

It also appears they now sell the same 'generic' launchers that lion country does
http://search.store.yahoo.net/gundog/cg ... query=blii

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roaniecowpony
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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:11 pm

I think the LCS stuff is either Innotek or Chinese. Possibly one and the same.

The system from either Tritronics or Dogtra is likely to run around $700 for 3 launcher remotes, 3 solenoid, & 1 transmitter.
I don't know if batteries and chargers are needed on top of that.

Im going to look into some other industrial and hobby remote control systems to see what's available.

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Re: Launchers

Post by DoubleBarrel GunDogs » Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:16 pm

I've thought about trying to retrofit an irrigation valve with a solenoid. Rainbird and Hunter make good products. However I believe they run off of 24 volts, and would be expensive if even feasible to run wireless. It would likely be very durable if it could be done.

Nate

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Re: Launchers

Post by jczv » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:24 am

roaniecowpony wrote:I think the LCS stuff is either Innotek or Chinese. Possibly one and the same.

The system from either Tritronics or Dogtra is likely to run around $700 for 3 launcher remotes, 3 solenoid, & 1 transmitter.
I don't know if batteries and chargers are needed on top of that.

Im going to look into some other industrial and hobby remote control systems to see what's available.
There's plans floating around to hook one up with a 2-way radio. Range is good but multiple launchers seems like more of an issue. If you go the car remote route keep in mind the range is pretty limited. If you go with servo's you can get them for about $10 from http://www.towerhobbies.com/ (if you ever need to replace the servo's in your DT's they have one that plugs right in). Tower hobbies also has a bunch of other remote control stuff but I never found a transmitter that was cheap and not a pain. I've never found cheap a solenoid that are strong enough so that's the most expensive part if you go that way (and I repurposed the ones I bought). Personally I decided that my electronics skills weren't good enough to make something that wouldn't be to fragile for the way I use launchers but that's my limitation. Good luck!

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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:33 am

Jc
I did stumble across someone's thread about using Motorola 2way radios to make a remote system. But I was trying to get a more robust system. It looked like it would work, just not what I was looking for.

I gave some thought to buying a Futaba 3 or 4 channel airplane radio system and repackaging it with toggle switches in place of the joystick gimbles. I have some radios laying around i could look into the transmitters and see if its practical.

Dogtra is a few blocks from my house. I should stop by and see what they have. At least the maintenance/repair would be more convenient. Their launchers are solenoid activated. I just don't want anymore chinese crappie electronics.

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Re: Launchers

Post by Ms. Cage » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:55 am

You'll find Dogtra to be a very solid product. We've used there e-collar , launchers for 14 years . never a problem.

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Re: Launchers

Post by Grange » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:45 pm

roaniecowpony wrote:I have three DT launchers. The basic metal mechanism is decent quality for the purpose. But the weakness seems to be the electronics. They were working fine last summer when I put them back in their original boxes and in a cabinet in my garage. I never got them wet and they've only been used a handful of times. This winter, I went to use them and they were intermittent/unreliable. For the cost of these things, the cheesy electronics are frustrating.

What's the most reliable radio/actuator system on the market?
I'd like to keep the mechanisms since they have side loading doors.
Same thing happened with my DT launcher. When I need more I'm probably going to go to the Dogtra, but in the mean time I'll probably send the receiver and transmitter into DT for repair as I don't know which one isn't working.

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Re: Launchers

Post by Tooling » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:07 pm

A trio of Dogtra's here...2 seasons so far and no issue save one solenoid having poorly fit connectors on the hardware end which I fixed myself. During down time they do suggest that the units are charged once a month which is a pain and I don't do it..seem to work fine anyhow. Although they are good so far, I agree..the electronics leave a lot to be desired.

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Re: Launchers

Post by Tooling » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:33 pm

Do not think for a moment that the Dogtra electronics are industrialized...I'm fairly certain you would be disappointed.

They're not bad but..

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roaniecowpony
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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:23 pm

I spoke to Tritronics customer service today. They said the Pro Control is discontinued. No replacement product is planned.

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Re: Launchers

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:44 am

Tooling wrote:Do not think for a moment that the Dogtra electronics are industrialized...I'm fairly certain you would be disappointed.

They're not bad but..
I would say the Dogtra's are the best of the bunch available today. The thing I like best about them is that when you press the button, the launcher is activated instantly...no delay. No chance of a dog getting a launcher in the face because of a time lag between punching the button and launching the unit.


I have two Dogtra launchers that are close to 20 years old. I have had to replace batteries in the actuator units and the remote, but that is all. I actually just bought a third unit this past year.

I can honestly say that, in all that time, I have not had a single failure of the launchers to fire, that was not completely my fault. As long as I remember to charge the units and to turn them on, they have worked every single time.

I think that is pretty good.

RayG

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Tooling
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Re: Launchers

Post by Tooling » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:45 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
Tooling wrote:Do not think for a moment that the Dogtra electronics are industrialized...I'm fairly certain you would be disappointed.

They're not bad but..
I would say the Dogtra's are the best of the bunch available today. The thing I like best about them is that when you press the button, the launcher is activated instantly...no delay. No chance of a dog getting a launcher in the face because of a time lag between punching the button and launching the unit.


I have two Dogtra launchers that are close to 20 years old. I have had to replace batteries in the actuator units and the remote, but that is all. I actually just bought a third unit this past year.

I can honestly say that, in all that time, I have not had a single failure of the launchers to fire, that was not completely my fault. As long as I remember to charge the units and to turn them on, they have worked every single time.

I think that is pretty good.

RayG
By all means and point taken (best of the bunch) Can't say personally as I've not handled much beyond the Dogtra's & the DT's...the Dogtra seemingly a bit better in overall construction. My comment comes from the "industrial" sense...there is a whole lot of hardware out there that the consumer market never sees.

That said, your experience mirrors mine w/ the short time I've had my units...the battery seems to be the weak link and I don't suspect they are of very high quality as supplied although I've not been in the units. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a battery upgrade would be in order come time for a swap.

..hate it when I forget to take the cross-pin safety out :oops:

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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:36 pm

I just stopped by Dogtra in Torrance. It's in a standard tilt-up industrial complex. They aren't set up for a lot of retail sales, but they do it in their lobby. Prices are MSRP as you would expect, so they don't undermine their distributors and retailers. The young lady helping me brought out a pheasant launcher with the radio gear. The electronics box is not much different than a DT. Looks like polystyrene plastic molded boxes.

Where I was a bit surprised was the metal construction was lighter, much lighter than a DT. The example was actually bent in a couple places. One such place was one of the fixed arms that extends from the main box. I came home and pulled out my DT launchers as soon as I got home a few minutes later, so it would be fresh in my mind. I gotta give DT a better grade on the launcher hardware construction. The whole box and especially the fixed arms are much heavier gauge.

Where I think I'm going with this is that I'll try to find some Tritronics Pro Controls and retrofit them to my DT launchers. I think that'll be the path that best satisfies me.

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Re: Launchers

Post by Coveyrise64 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:46 pm

roaniecowpony wrote:Where I think I'm going with this is that I'll try to find some Tritronics Pro Controls and retrofit them to my DT launchers. I think that'll be the path that best satisfies me.
Tri-tronics has quit making the Pro-Control with no plans to introduce a new model. Here is a new one on the scene that would adapt to your DT launchers without much trouble.

http://www.sportdog.com/dog-training/launchers

cr
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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:36 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:Where I think I'm going with this is that I'll try to find some Tritronics Pro Controls and retrofit them to my DT launchers. I think that'll be the path that best satisfies me.
Tri-tronics has quit making the Pro-Control with no plans to introduce a new model. Here is a new one on the scene that would adapt to your DT launchers without much trouble.

http://www.sportdog.com/dog-training/launchers

cr
Yeah, I spoke with Tritronics last week. There's still plenty of stock in retailers. My worry is that Tritronics will quit servicing them in a couple years when the warranty runs out.

I like the water resistant feature of the Sport Dog receivers. But I'm not too keen on being a beta tester.

The Dogtra has convenient servicing locally for me going for them. TT has legendary rugged electronics going for them. Sport Dog has advertised ruggedness of a new product.

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Re: Launchers

Post by jczv » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:00 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:
roaniecowpony wrote:Where I think I'm going with this is that I'll try to find some Tritronics Pro Controls and retrofit them to my DT launchers. I think that'll be the path that best satisfies me.
Tri-tronics has quit making the Pro-Control with no plans to introduce a new model. Here is a new one on the scene that would adapt to your DT launchers without much trouble.

http://www.sportdog.com/dog-training/launchers

cr
The sportdog version looks interesting but it also appears to be based on the DT design not the dogtra/tritronics with a servo triggering the launch instead of a solenoid (you can see the arm that rotates on the side). It's cheaper to make that way but I like the solenoid design better. At least the transmitter appears to be nicer but it would be interesting to get a real review.

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Re: Launchers

Post by roaniecowpony » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:54 am

I'm pretty sure there isn't much difference in manufacturing cost between the rotary servo design and the solenoid design. Price out a solenoid at retail prices and price out a servo at retail prices. There really isn't any difference. A rotary servo has a ton of moving parts, motor, and a gearbox with as many gears as an automatic transmission. The solenoids for these applications is a simple winding. If you go digging around into buying Chinese solenoids (the type used in these devices) they can be had for a fraction of the $25-30 price that the dog supply places sell them for. Unit price for a similar solenoid from China at wholesale is between $0.50 and $1.00 depending on quantity.

I agree with you that the Sport Dog looks like a servo type system. The tiny little gears in these servos are the weak link. Some people don't like the slow response time of the servo type systems as well. I haven't found it's a long delay, maybe 1/2 sec or less.

For the McGiver's out there, you can buy an automotive remote door lock system on ebay for $30-45 dollars, depending on which seller. They come with 2 key fobs (xmitters), 4 solenoids and one receiver. A guy could buy one door lock system for each launcher and either use different fobs for each launcher or pop the fob open and put the little circuitboards into a larger box for multiple buttons/circuits. The range would be limited. My factory GM remote works at about 75 yards. The ebay remote door systems seem to advertise 50-100 yards. So, you're not going to get the hundreds of yards that the name brand remote launcher systems get. But, I've never launched a bird at more than 25 yards anyway. It looks like you could put together a 4 launcher remote system for about $20-25 for each launcher, including a lithium battery and charger ... $100 for a 4 remote system is pretty doable for most people. The launcher boxes are around $75 each. A handy guy could have full a remote control 2 launcher system for $200 (with launchers)
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40

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Re: Launchers

Post by uplandrsb » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:47 am

I agree the DT launcher can be a little frustrating at times having to push the button just right, time lag in launching etc.. i have 5 and i have had them working great the last year or so.. what i figured out is that if you make sure your batteries are fresh they work just fine.. as soon as i get a lag in going off or any issues, i change the launcher battery, if that doesnt help, i change the transmitter too.. usually this fixes them..

i have not had much experience with the Dogrtas, they look like they are built very nice.

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