Too Noisy for hunting

[Mark Newman]

My hunting buddies say I am too noisy in the field with all of the whistles and commands (come around, over, in) while Pheasant hunting. Chip (3 years old) did great at that but is used to hunting alone with me most of the time, so I needed to have him extend his runs each way (left and right). But he also would venture out too far for North Dakota (and our guys tend to walk a lot slower than I do when I hunt alone with him. I walk at a pretty decent pace alone and chip and I can cover a lot of ground in Wisconsin where we have to search a long ways in order to find a bird.
My main question to you is this: How do I train my dog and control him to stay in closer and move left and right without calling out loud. I have the ECollar and I get his attention with the vibrate and sometimes that is enough to get him to come around. When he ventures out too far I can usually get him to come in with a quick nick but if he is scenting anything, then he starts hunting on his own and it takes a heavy jolt on the collar. I have trained him mostly on my own but at 1-1/4 yrs I sent him off with a trainer for 2 months who trained on horse back with 21 dogs (3 at a time). The trainer let them go out to 60 and 75 yards. Before I sent him, Chip was retrieving birds beautifully and now he hasn't retrieved a bird the last 2 seasons. He points and holds better now, and will run them down as soon as they are shot and finish them off, but won't return them.

[whoadog]

Pace on pheasant hunting, IMHO, is based on several things, the number of hunters, the number of dogs, and the willingness of the birds to sit tight. I started hunting with a group of guys about 5 years ago that are track stars in a pheasant field. The hunts I've been on with them have been the best pheasant hunts I've ever had. We usually hunt early in the season and the birds are usually in full-blown sprint. The reason we do well is because we have enough guys to surround the areas we hunt and push the birds where we want them to go. We are as quiet as we can be getting into position but we don't usually worry about noise once we start walking and that includes handling dogs. In fact, last weekend we were hunting standing strips of corn and the guys in the corn were actually intentionally brushing the stalks with their elbows to make as much noise as possible. That particular field we slipped out of the trucks as quietly as possible and then sent the blockers around to where they were going to stand. As the blockers moved into position, birds started to flush in front of them nearly 1/2 a mile ahead of the walkers before we started walking. When I hunt alone, I usually have one or two dogs and I hunt as quietly and slowly as possible. I can't surround the birds so I rely on stealth and a good dog to help me get close enough to shoot.

What's my point? When it comes to group hunting, I think knowing where to place blockers and having enough guns to really cover the ground is much more important than how much noise you make. When you hunt alone, you better have your dogs under control and soft soled shoes.

Now, to get your dog to answer to vibrate, use it as you would your whistle and initially, in conjuction with your whistle. I've actually done this with a beeper instead of vibrate. If you do one long blast for recall, do the blast and simultaneously vibrate the collar for the same amount of time as the whistle blast. Do the two of them together a couple of times and he should have it. Repeat the process for your other whistle commands. The whole process for a dog that is really well-trained to answer a whistle is literally one or two training sessions. They seem to catch on very quickly.

[Trekmoor]

I think I'd be inclined to ask your buddies to get dogs of their own to train and then to see if they can do any better !!! It's easy to moan about someone else's best efforts if you never have to try to do the same thing yourself.

Bill T.

[gonehuntin']

I think I'd be inclined to ask your buddies to get dogs of their own to train and then to see if they can do any better !!! It's easy to moan about someone else's best efforts if you never have to try to do the same thing yourself.

Bill T.

+1. Sound like a bunch of lazy fellas with little gratitude to me. Hunt pheasant as quietly as possible, just like a deer.

Let the dog set the pace and the range. You'll have little to do with it.

Don't hunt with that many guys and expect the dog to cover the line.

[rkappes]

The very reason I like hunting by myself or with other dog owners. I'm out to enjoy my time in the field and my dog. Don't need others wrecking that. If they were my buddies they wouldn't of been asked back after the first time out. I also don't like large groups and walking straight lines back and forth.

I walk at a fairly slow pace also. Let the dog do the work. I'm in no hurry. Right or wrong I like to let my dog roll and I simply follow, quietly. My dad on the other hand is always giving commands, whistling etc...which doesn't help any when hunting pheasants. He's getting better though, he's my dad, I love him and enjoy hunting with him so I put up with it.

As far as range as soon as the dog is at the range that is too far for you immediately call him back or give your work closer command along with the vibrate on your collar, like stated above.

If the dog is birdy, I'd simply stop the group and have whoever is closest to the dog follow the dog, instead of giving the dog a heavy jolt.

[Cicada]

The trainer let them go out to 60 and 75 yards. Before I sent him, Chip was retrieving birds beautifully and now he hasn't retrieved a bird the last 2 seasons. He points and holds better now, and will run them down as soon as they are shot and finish them off, but won't return them.

Did the trainer explain why the dog stopped retrieving?

I am in the same boat slow hunters; one has a good dog he just has no idea where it is half the time and I think this will be my last year of that game

Grant

[DonF]

I'd show those guy's the door too! You hunt with me and my dog, you keep your comments to yourself or go home. Had a dogless guy with me years ago. He shot a grouse my dog put up and when Skip went to retrieve, he started screaming and running after him. Skip picked up the bird and was coming back to me when the guy met him and he reached out and grabbed the bird, Skip let it go. He got back up and was showing me the bird and telling me how close he came to having my dog eat his bird. We were on our way back while he was telling me and Skip was on a heel. Got to his car said good by and turned Skip loose again. He just didn't get it! Me and Skip did!

[Scott Linden]

Yep. If their dogs were better, you'd be hunting behind them. Some "friends."

[jimbo&rooster]

I hunt with several guys a year who don't have dogs, and occasionally they will bring a friend or 2. I dont really care Im there for me and my dog most of the time.

Anyhow, once in a while I will have a non dog owner (and occasionally a dog owner) Will start to hack at MY dogs cause my dogs tend to run bigger than they are comfortable with. Even my non broke dogs will stand a bird till I get there so I let em roll. I won't have someone run down my dog, and I certainly wont have someone try to handle my dog.

If they aren't comfortable with how you do it, they have other options for killing birds, or they can go to the store any buy chicken......

Jim

[buckshot1]

Sounds to me like you're making noise because you're trying to keep your pointing dog in flushing dog range to satisfy your slow friends. I bet that gets very frustrating. I'd keep quiet and let your dog range ahead as far as he wants. He's bred to find birds and hold them for you, not work across a row of walkers like a flusher. Follow the dog and let him decide the pace of the hunt. It's more pleasant that way, and the dog has a better experience because he can work a runner without worrying about getting zapped. If your friends don't like that style of hunting, they can buy themselves a flusher. :roll:

[RayGubernat]

Sounds to me like you're making noise because you're trying to keep your pointing dog in flushing dog range to satisfy your slow friends. I bet that gets very frustrating. I'd keep quiet and let your dog range ahead as far as he wants. He's bred to find birds and hold them for you, not work across a row of walkers like a flusher. Follow the dog and let him decide the pace of the hunt. It's more pleasant that way, and the dog has a better experience because he can work a runner without worrying about getting zapped. If your friends don't like that style of hunting, they can buy themselves a flusher. :roll:

Funny I was thinking much the same sort of thing. Your trying to be "inclusive" of the others in your hunting party may well be messing the dog up.

Let him hunt the way he is used to. If you are in the center with the dog working in front of you and you have flankers on either side, they should get opportunities if they keep up. I have no doubt that the dog will pattern wider, all on its own, because of the additional hunters, so just let it happen.

Bottom line...your dog...your call.

RayG

[RoostersMom]

I agree with Ray - your dog, your call. That said, I hate to hunt with guys that are constantly hacking at their dogs, whistling....yelling, it's all the same to me. I prefer a quieter hunt. I also hunt slowly - I can't keep up with the guys that are six feet tall. I prefer to hunt in sloughs and cattail areas or along fencelines and field rows. I don't prefer the larger grass fields and big groups - it's not fun for me trying to keep up with the speedsters.

I think your dog will learn to adjust to larger groups, but I sure wouldn't worry about him getting in front of everyone equally - just hunt in the middle and let him go to the sides at whatever range he can adjust to.

[Mark Newman]

Thanks Whoadog, I will start to work on the whistle and vibrate together as you say. I think we need a couple more guys as blockers and then we need to follow your strategies. I have to say, I much prefer hunting by myself and the dog. But bonding with brothers and buddies is great also. I appreciate your input.

Pace on pheasant hunting, IMHO, is based on several things, the number of hunters, the number of dogs, and the willingness of the birds to sit tight. I started hunting with a group of guys about 5 years ago that are track stars in a pheasant field. The hunts I've been on with them have been the best pheasant hunts I've ever had.

What's my point? When it comes to group hunting, I think knowing where to place blockers and having enough guns to really cover the ground is much more important than how much noise you make. When you hunt alone, you better have your dogs under control and soft soled shoes.

Now, to get your dog to answer to vibrate, use it as you would your whistle and initially, in conjuction with your whistle. I've actually done this with a beeper instead of vibrate. If you do one long blast for recall, do the blast and simultaneously vibrate the collar for the same amount of time as the whistle blast. Do the two of them together a couple of times and he should have it. Repeat the process for your other whistle commands. The whole process for a dog that is really well-trained to answer a whistle is literally one or two training sessions. They seem to catch on very quickly.

[Mark Newman]

Good advice, thanks "rkappes":

As far as range as soon as the dog is at the range that is too far for you immediately call him back or give your work closer command along with the vibrate on your collar, like stated above.

If the dog is birdy, I'd simply stop the group and have whoever is closest to the dog follow the dog, instead of giving the dog a heavy jolt.

[Mark Newman]

No, the trainer just said I might want to work on his retrieving a bit more. He hunted the dogs 3 at a time while he was on horseback. I don't know if he was having (or expecting) them retrieve or not. I have not contacted him again. I think that was bad investment.

The trainer let them go out to 60 and 75 yards. Before I sent him, Chip was retrieving birds beautifully and now he hasn't retrieved a bird the last 2 seasons. He points and holds better now, and will run them down as soon as they are shot and finish them off, but won't return them.

Did the trainer explain why the dog stopped retrieving?

I am in the same boat slow hunters; one has a good dog he just has no idea where it is half the time and I think this will be my last year of that game

Grant

[Mark Newman]

Sounds to me like you're making noise because you're trying to keep your pointing dog in flushing dog range to satisfy your slow friends. I bet that gets very frustrating. I'd keep quiet and let your dog range ahead as far as he wants. He's bred to find birds and hold them for you, not work across a row of walkers like a flusher. Follow the dog and let him decide the pace of the hunt. It's more pleasant that way, and the dog has a better experience because he can work a runner without worrying about getting zapped. If your friends don't like that style of hunting, they can buy themselves a flusher. :roll:

Thanks, I need to quit trying to make everybody happy. Yesterday while hunting BY MYSELF! Chip worked a runner for about 1/8th of a mile at his pace with me high stepping behind him, he held a beautiful point for me to get close enough, it took off again and he flushed the rooster. As it flies up and loops around toward me, my mind goes to the words of my wife the last time we ate pheasant, "can you shoot them with one bullet?", So I tried to shoot it in the head- 2 shots later and a bit too long of lead- he kept flying and CHIP just looked up at me with the look- "WHAT WAS THAT!" a second hunter at that point may of been a help

[Mark Newman]

Thanks for all of your replies. This is a great forum. Wish all of you guys lived in the Hudson, WI area so I could bend your ears and go to the field with you. Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving. It is 8:27 a.m. and I have spent valuable hunting time here, so Chip and I are going out to get the Thanksgiving Pheasant for a few hours.

[larue]

it is your dog you hunt how you like.That being said birds will run/fly off to the human voice,constantly handling is one of my biggest pet peeves while wild bird hunting.It does and will have an effect of your success.I will not go into range of a dog other than a pointing dog is there to point,and range does not effect that,range is more about what you are comfortable with than what the dog needs to do.
many people find that once they learn to trust there dog,200 yards or more is not a big deal.