Please help a first time trainer.

huntinghusker · Post by **huntinghusker** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:55 pm

I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:15 pm

Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.

Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1

Del Lolo · Post by **Del Lolo** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:54 pm

For now, train the dogs seperately.
Get on a good, modern, sequential training program.... My choice is the Smartwork Series by Evan Graham.
Quit taking your pups hunting until you have good fundementals laid down.

deseeker · Post by **deseeker** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:57 pm

Sharon wrote:Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.

Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1

Sharon, He has labs

. Evan's programs would probably work better

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:19 pm

Not only train them separately, but keep them totally separate as much as you can for the first year. Google littermate syndrome and pay heed to that advice - it will be worth it in the long run.

Get Smartworks by Evan Graham and follow that program to a "T".

Legband · Post by **Legband** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:26 pm

I have used the same routine on all my pups and its always worked for me.
Last year I use it on my buddy's dog that had already picked up some bad habits and would also take off with the bird.
Pick up some construction netting 3' high at least 65' long ,
Drive some t posts in the ground, two rows 3' apart on width straight across from each other and 6' apart length wise,
So your posts are paired to create a rectangle 3'wide 30' long,
Rap the construction netting on the two long sides and one end , leaving the other end open,
Sitting at the open end put your pup in the run in front of you , toss a bird to the end the pup has no choice but to return to you ,
Praise the daylights out of him ,
I have only had one pup who sat down and chewed on the bird , so I snapped a 30' lead cord on him and gently pulled him back while commanding fetch it up in three days he didn't need the cord ,
I am confident it will help.

birdshot · Post by **birdshot** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:42 pm

are you near North Platte?

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:30 am

Your first problem is that your dog is NOT obedience trained; if it, were it wouldn't run away and would come when called.

I wouldn't take a five month old dove huntiung.

You need a program; buy and follow Smart Fetch oe Fowl Dawgs.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:43 am

You need to get a training book or dvd, go to a seminar, find a buddy or training group something, you have a lot to learn, but you can do it.

I often train littermates at the same time. Keep one on the stake out while you train the other, then swap. Do not kennel or hunt them together, always keep one on the stake out.

I do let them play some together.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:51 am

Neil wrote:You need to get a training book or dvd, go to a seminar, find a buddy or training group something, you have a lot to learn, but you can do it.

I often train littermates at the same time. Keep one on the stake out while you train the other, then swap. Do not kennel or hunt them together, always keep one on the stake out.

I do let them play some together.

^^^ yup ^^^

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:02 am

huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.

You have several problems, not one. But it's good that you're seeking solutions.

First, they are not obeying fundamental commands because they are distracted. That indicates that they are taught, but not trained. It's time. We e-collar condition our pups to "Here" ('come') at about 4 months old. Here is a glimpse of that process.

There is more to it, of course. But you get the idea. You won't have any refusals that you can't swiftly and efficiently deal with following that. But you must also start training these pups individually - not in tandem. You're begging for failure to train them together in any session...at least for right now.

Second, there are two cardinal (unforgivable) sins a retriever can commit. One is refusing to make an effort to comply with direction/command. The other is eating birds. You have both, and you should forget hunting or field events entirely until these two 'sins' are dead and buried! They're young. They have many seasons ahead...IF you take care of their training first. It's time to really train.

Training is a 3-phase process; Teach, Force, Reinforce. Study hard, and start training before any more time passes.

EvanG

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:11 am

EvanG wrote:
huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups, Henry and Hannah. Having two of them raises its own problems mostly the will not retrieve anything when they are together. They are trained in basic obedience, sit, stay, come, heel, etc. Those are not the main problem I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time, it was a really slow evening, and I only got one and missed another, but he did not see that one fall. So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it. I them played a little fetch with bird and did get him, very hesitantly and only one to get him to bring it back. I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing. I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds, as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good. I am wondering how to go about fixing this. I don't think that walking away would help, because he doesn't want me to chase him, he just just wants to eat the bird. Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.
You have several problems, not one. But it's good that you're seeking solutions.

First, they are not obeying fundamental commands because they are distracted. That indicates that they are taught, but not trained. It's time. We e-collar condition our pups to "Here" ('come') at about 4 months old. Here is a glimpse of that process.

There is more to it, of course. But you get the idea. You won't have any refusals that you can't swiftly and efficiently deal with following that. But you must also start training these pups individually - not in tandem. You're begging for failure to train them together in any session...at least for right now.

Second, there are two cardinal (unforgivable) sins a retriever can commit. One is refusing to make an effort to comply with direction/command. The other is eating birds. You have both, and you should forget hunting or field events entirely until these two 'sins' are dead and buried! They're young. They have many seasons ahead...IF you take care of their training first. It's time to really train.

Training is a 3-phase process; Teach, Force, Reinforce. Study hard, and start training before any more time passes.

EvanG

Huntinghusker....Listen to this man.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:52 am

huntinghusker wrote:I am a first time dog trainer and have two 5 month old yellow lab pups,
Having two of them raises its own problems
I took Henry Dove hunting for the first time,
So I took him down to go get the bird, he found it and took off on a dead sprint. I chased him down and got him to stop after about 50 yards. I made him give me the bird, and congratulated him when he got it.
I am looking for a way to fix this, and I suspect that Hannah will attempt to do the same thing.
I believe that my main problem is that they were not introduced to birds,
as much as they introduced themselves to birds in the form of chickens. They ate those chickens, and learned that it tastes good.
I am wondering how to go about fixing this.
he just just wants to eat the bird.
Any help would be appreciated, Thank You.

OK Guy's, although huntingsucker' has not replied, and the eloquent answers so far would hopefully put a newcomer on the right path for success with encouragement.
I am sure from the OP that this newcomer to the grande ole world of dog training has had some previous thought and consideration before embarking on the task of taking on two young siblings at the same time,so the comments so far I feel are a bit overpowering and may be asking too much on this aspiring owner to do the right thing in his/her quest for help?
As for direction to a recognised programme?..and it is in no way directed to Evans invaluable piece!!! ,but I have to ask myself and the OP? that even Evan's programme may be a bridge too far, if the situation as described is anything to consider?....Even the terminology for a newcomer can have doubt and confusion , for which others see as 'understandable'?

If it is totally understandable?..then I have to ask 'Why is the situation as it is'?////
I believe the OP requires help and guidance ,but it must be even more confusing receiving it here?
Just a thought?

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:28 pm

polmaise wrote:As for direction to a recognised programme?..and it is in no way directed to Evans invaluable piece!!! ,but I have to ask myself and the OP? that even Evan's programme may be a bridge too far, if the situation as described is anything to consider?....Even the terminology for a newcomer can have doubt and confusion , for which others see as 'understandable'?

If it is totally understandable?..then I have to ask 'Why is the situation as it is'?////
I believe the OP requires help and guidance ,but it must be even more confusing receiving it here?
Just a thought?

First, if he decides to train via Smartwork he would be well advised to include our first book, Smartwork for Retrievers volume one, which has an extensive glossary of terms to help the new trainer to learn the vocabulary of retriever training. Picking a package that includes this book will also save him 15% on all materials included in the package.

The situation exists as it does because he's clearly not following a credible program. Hence the suggestion to get one!

EvanG

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:41 pm

deseeker wrote:
Sharon wrote:Suggestion #!: Work with one dog for now. Don't have the other one around when training the dog.

Suggestion#2: Buy a programme and stick to it. I like "Perfect Start. Perfect Finish".

https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=n ... oKmI&pbx=1
Sharon, He has labs . Evan's programs would probably work better

Absolutely. Sorry. I missed that. My brain is fixated on setters.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:49 pm

EvanG wrote: First, if he decides to train via Smartwork he would be well advised to include our first book, Smartwork for Retrievers volume one, which has an extensive glossary of terms to help the new trainer to learn the vocabulary of retriever training. Picking a package that includes this book will also save him 15% on all materials included in the package.

The situation exists as it does because he's clearly not following a credible program. Hence the suggestion to get one!

EvanG

Easy Evan! I'm with you......But to me it sounds like a salesman

I'm just going on what is printed by the OP!.....and is very typical of most newcomers?>>> looking for help.
Knowledgeable folk such as yourself and others on here, sometimes fall on 'jargon' and phrases ,and concepts that perhaps?, some coming from a less knowledgeable base (regarding dog training) can find confusing?...or lack the 'base' to start?>> let's face it..if these books and dvd's were so worldly known to the first timer, then surely they would have read/seen them before situation arises??....heck you just gotta google 'dog training'??

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm

Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.

EvanG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:27 pm

I agree Evan, but that isn't helping the OP>?
He doesn't know how to get his dog's to re-call with a bird in the gob!

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:43 pm

polmaise wrote:I agree Evan, but that isn't helping the OP>?
He doesn't know how to get his dog's to re-call with a bird in the gob!

He would learn how quickly with a proven program. That's why they have value to people. I don't understand the resistance based on your assertions.

EvanG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:59 pm

I'll await the reply from the OP.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:29 pm

The OP made the same basic mistake I see many newe dog owners make: He bought the dog THEN decided to learn how to train them.

A more prudent approach would have been to buy the training material first, study it, THEN buy the pups. One would have been plenty!

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:09 pm

We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:58 pm

EvanG wrote:

Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.

EvanG

ROFLMBO

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:42 pm

polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?

If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.

Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.

huntinghusker · Post by **huntinghusker** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:58 pm

Sorry I did not reply sooner. Thanks for the comments. I will have to get a training program, but I feel I need to explain some things more I didn't have a long drawn out decision to buy the pups before training, it was more opportunity. Me and my parents got them as farm/hunting dogs for the price of the shots. I also knew that 5 months old was probably too young, but I did not want to wait a whole year because they are definitely not going to be old enough to go pheasant hunting, and our duck lake dried up again so this was the only hunting opportunity for a year. I don't think the idea with a pen would work, because he was not playing keep away for fun, he thought he was in trouble, and he is protective of anything he can eat. Part of competition with his sister. I do not believe he has distinguished the difference between attacking a chicken, and pick up a dove. He is obedience trained just probably not as much as he needs to be. I did not have to literally chase him down, he stopped after I called a couple of times, and even took a few steps toward me as I was closing the distance. I do think I will need to try the check cord, I do not know why I did not think of that. Thanks for all the help again.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:43 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.

Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.

ALWAYS EASIER TO FIND FAULT AND CRITICIZE THAN TO HELP.

Ezzy

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:45 am

Sharon wrote:
EvanG wrote:

Many salesmen are NOT con artists. One is not the same as the other.

EvanG
ROFLMBO

I was looking at the situation from a different angle?
In the context of the picture ,the situation is that the salesman is offering another tool which 'we' can see as the solution to the immediate problem,but the potential purchaser already has a more pressing dilemma !There is also the consideration that the purchaser does not know how to use this new saviour (tool) and what would happen if the naive' young knight abandons his trusty sword and the new tool jams or has a stoppage or runs out of ammo?..The salesman in this picture would then be sending the young knight to a mortal end!?
So I do agree that the picture does present a solution,however it requires more than selling the new found tool? The purchaser has to learn how to use it and maintain it!

So yes Sharon ROFLMBO from a different view

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:49 am

It is not the end of the world. Many pups want to run off with their first bird and attempt to eat it. Use a check cord and pigeons. One pup at a time. A five month old pup is probably going to run off with his first bird no matter how good his recall is.
Sounds like you are a thinking person and will figure this out. If the pup was that easy to catch and came toward you it will probably be pretty natural. I have had some you couldn't catch until he ate the bird they get over it. It is not rocket science and pups are pups. I would take them pheasant hunting one at a time when they are a bit older. Good Luck ...................................Cj

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 am

5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.

5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.

35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.

EvanG

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:51 am

ezzy333 wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
polmaise wrote:We don't know that?.> He may have read books and seen dvd's?...then bought the pup's? on the premise 'that the books and dvd's he had read and seen?
If he'd had FOLLOWED a reliable program: 1). He wouldn't have taken a 5 month old pup DOVE hunting.
2) The pup would have come when called and NOT played keep away.

Possibility three is that he bought the material and didn't follow it or followed it in a hap-hazard manor.
ALWAYS EASIER TO FIND FAULT AND CRITICIZE THAN TO HELP.

Ezzy

It's also always easier to do thing correctly. There is NO way members on this forum can adequately outline a training program for the person. Therefore, the safest, best and easiest thing is to buy Smart Fetch of Fowl Dawgs and follow it. Then, if problems arise, questions can be asked on here.

Rather than have people babbling on about what they would do, it's best to simply buy an organized program and follow it. That way there are no conflicting opinions to deal with or sort through. IMO.

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:21 am

EvanG wrote:5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.

5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.

35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.

EvanG

Have you ever seen one go through FF and then eat birds?

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:34 am

Neil wrote:
EvanG wrote:5 month old pup wanting to run off with a bird = not a big deal...pretty common...you'll be able to train through it.

5 month old pup eating a bird = BIG DEAL!...Has in many cases been something that has ended careers of good dogs. Ignore it at your own risk.

35 years of training retrievers professionally teaches you some things, and this is one of them. This is not a small thing.

EvanG
Have you ever seen one go through FF and then eat birds?

Honestly, no...not if it was done thoroughly. But I have seen many over the years that were poorly trained, or not trained at all that ate birds and developed such a taste for it that they were never able to be relied upon not to be rough on birds. It's just one of those things some dogs have a proclivity toward that could be avoided through early training.

EvanG

Neil · Post by **Neil** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:57 am

Or a good FFing.

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:00 am

Neil wrote:Or a good FFing.

Agree. One and the same!

EvanG

Donnytpburge · Post by **Donnytpburge** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:47 am

Hunting Husker:

You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.

In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.

Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.

DB

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:34 pm

Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:

You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.

In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.

Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.

DB

A reply like that is why you need a training program.

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:20 pm

gonehuntin' wrote: Rather than have people babbling on about what they would do, it's best to simply buy an organized program and follow it. That way there are no conflicting opinions to deal with or sort through. IMO.

So why are there so many who follow an organized program on forums asking questions?
Or is it just conflicting with what one believes?
Others do and should have an opinion! ..The alternative option is to not reply.

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:21 pm

Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:

You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.

In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.

Remember the only judgment you & your dog needs to be concerned with is yours.

DB

If you look just as hard as you can for advice that is wholeheartedly backwards, you won't find your objectives met any more fully that the reply above. One of the worst things you can do is to take an under trained retriever hunting. The risks far outweigh the benefits. Train, then hunt. Being lucky and being smart are different things. Play it smart.

EvanG

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:06 pm

Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.
The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results

In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:06 pm

The dog was going to eat birds and has no recall, what will the next problem be? Both of these problems may seem rudimentary to the experienced, to the inexperienced they are not. Couple this reality with the fact that the OP came on here and asked for help...there are only two reasonable paths, professional help in person or a defined and measurable system to follow delivered in an understandable medium. The other suggestions are symptom relievers and do not reach the heart of the problem.

Of course he needs a program or programme. If he followed that advice he would be well on his way. Those of you who find such disdain in the idea that someone markets and sells an idea such as dog training should ask yourself why you object. Is it moral ground? Do you expect these products will cause incurable disease or epidemic? Maybe they are breaking down a moral fiber. Perhaps you just do things differently and mask your insecurity in sarcasm and skepticism for others...yes, I suspect that's it.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:08 pm

polmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!

ahh yes and then someone with only enough clarity to amuse himself while being a much greater part of the problem than anything resembling a solution

polmaise · Post by **polmaise** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:13 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
polmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!
ahh yes and then someone with only enough clarity to amuse himself while being a much greater part of the problem than anything resembling a solution

That would be a visit to a trainer

I'm pretty full right now, and a bit far away.

DoubleBarrel GunDogs · Post by **DoubleBarrel GunDogs** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:15 pm

On the bright side your pups have good prey drive. On the down size you probably have a hard mouth / bird eating problem that will take a good ff program to straighten out.

My advice: Don't assume the gun intro is complete. Decide on a good comprehensive training program and follow through. Employ the chain gang to help train the pups independently. Seek the help of a pro trainer if you have the funds.

Evan has given you some good advise as well.

Good luck,

Nate

Donnytpburge · Post by **Donnytpburge** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:18 pm

Gonehuntin & Evan

Are you saying that a teenager should not take his dog hunting?

Are you saying the teenager would better off spending his money on some DVD
Products and just train the dog for the first year?

Are you saying he should just ship his dogs to a trainer so they
Will be perfect for a one dove hunt?

I know what I'm saying, get on the HUNT program and have fun!

Db

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:53 pm

Donnytpburge wrote: Gonehuntin & Evan

Are you saying that a teenager should not take his dog hunting?

Not a dog that won't come when he's called and eats birds.

Donnytpburge wrote: Are you saying the teenager would better off spending his money on some DVD
Products and just train the dog for the first year?

Yes. That would be the most intelligent thing to do and would benefit both man and dog.

Donnytpburge wrote: Are you saying he should just ship his dogs to a trainer so they
Will be perfect for a one dove hunt?

Yes, and so the dog will be a competent hunting partner for the rest of the dog's career.

Donnytpburge wrote:I know what I'm saying, get on the HUNT program and have fun!

Db

We can only hope that the young man is intelligent to not follow such incompetent advice.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:55 pm

polmaise wrote:Must be confusing for a newcomer hearing many different views and advice.
The differentials also depending on breed and intended purpose. One minute someone is advising to get the dog hunting and introduced to game at the earliest opportunity, and others advising to do different. Then well respected folks advising on methods for different purposes and end results
In between is the more experienced debating outside the newcomers understanding!

Get used to it and suck it up. That's life on the net.

Donnytpburge · Post by **Donnytpburge** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:33 pm

Huntinghusker

I wish you the best of luck with your pups.

I don't want to post anything negative on your thread so I'm gonna
Bow out of this conversation before I lose my temper.

Db

Legband · Post by **Legband** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:21 pm

EvanG wrote:
Donnytpburge wrote:Hunting Husker:

You have not done anything wrong so don't let the negative comments get you down.
You can go buy all the manuals and programs you want, but none of it is going to be as beneficial as your hunting experience.
As any job nothing beats boots on the ground getting it done.

In my opinion the best program for any pup is to take them hunting, let them learn from there own mistakes, and keep it fun.

EvanG

Thanks for your encouragement to the young man Donny , I think that often times seasoned Gun Dog Owners forget being a boy with his first dog , now I'm not saying that technically its not good advise for someone to study up on training a Dog before they get one , but in all honesty who starts out that way.
The first Dog is more about a Love affair with the sport and yes with the Dog , not one person on this forum started out with the same understanding , time , money and ability to, devote to their dogs , that they have now ,and that's a lot to ask of a high school kid .
Not to mention as far as the dog go's he said it was five months old , with just a couple easy steps you can make the dog return and stop chewing birds .
Anyway thanks again I hate to see new people to our sport discouraged especially youngsters.

Donnytpburge · Post by **Donnytpburge** » Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:44 pm

Legband

You got the point, explained it a lot better
Than I could.

Thanks

Db

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:41 am

Legband wrote:...now I'm not saying that technically its not good advise for someone to study up on training a Dog before they get one , but in all honesty who starts out that way.

Smart people. But I obviously agree that when most of us start out we don't know better. Once you do know better, doesn't it obligate you to act in the best interests of your dog?

EvanG