Gun Dog Forum

I was wondering if i should blow the whistle while the dog is chasing a bird, if he does not stop can i then use stimulation? Or will this lessen his bird drive. I figure to not shock him without blowing the whistle so he knows he got shocked for not listening, instead of the bird causing the stimulation. Thanks for any help! Also, are there any other ways to stop the chase?

How old is the dog? Is it a pointing dog? Is the dog whoa broke? I'd be very cautious about stimulation to stop the chase especially if it isn't steady on whoa. The idea is to steady the dog on whoa then slowly introduce birds while giving the command.

13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.

No way I'd shock a dog chasing a bird that wasn't what broke.

Obedience train your dog. Do this so it is not in connection with birds. When the dog will come any place, any time, any where when called, it will be easy to break off of birds with two tweets of the whistle.

I take the chase out with a collar, that said its not done in a pointing situation. Its done after stopping the dog (whoa if you like) and dropping a pigeon. Very light taps on a low low setting, with your mouth shut. Done right it will take nothing from the dog as far as desire goes.....Most dogs figure it out in 3 to 6 birds, some take longer. It works but has to be done properly. Since there are no birds being pointed or scent on the ground no bad association is made with pointing or with gamebirds. From there it is an easy progression to get the dog fully broke to wing and shot. I take all mine thru to being fully steady/broke even if I plan on letting them break on the gun, that way its easy to tighten them up when you want/need to.

I like the Rick and Ronnie Smith version of working the chase out of a dog
they first teach the dog a point of contact that means to stop and stand still
then after the dog knows t=what that point of contact is when they bust a bird they are cued to stop ..IE that the cue means stop not a correction for doing something wrong. It is a different way to view a process which I have seen have seen many times over help take the chase out with out taking the style drive or intensity out of the dog.

Thats interesting K9, not so terribly different from how I was taught, although the dog is honest and the chase is taken out before there is ever a bird to bust. In that way there is no effect on style of or intensity of the dog when it does begin pointing birds on the ground....

BTW you know the person who taught me the method I use currently

gonehuntin' wrote:Obedience train your dog. Do this so it is not in connection with birds. When the dog will come any place, any time, any where when called, it will be easy to break off of birds with two tweets of the whistle.

I agree completely with the above. Stopping the chase is all about obedience and that has(or should have) nothing to do with birds. If the dog disobeys a known command it should be corrected. If the dog has not been thoroughly and completely taught the command...that is job one for the trainer.

You may well have to step back and do the yardwork necessary to teach that obedience command. Whoa is whoa. it has nothing whatsoever to do with birds. It has to do with the dog stopping...instantly...and growing roots right where it is. Not so much as a toenail should move when a dog is on whoa. Come or here is the same thing...instant response to the command...or you ain't done your job as trainer.

Another version of the same concept is doing heel/whoa drills in the yard. I use a pigging string, some folks use a Wonder lead, some a prong or pinch collar and some use a Buddy stick. Bottom line the dog learns to cue off you and learns to obey.

I know you said that you don't plan to have your dog steady to wing and shot. I would like you to consider initially steadying the dog to wing and shot. It actually makes a bunch of things easier on the dog. It makes it easier for them to learn what to do in the early stages. It also makes it easier for you , as the trainer, to pick up a small failure to comply and correct it, before it becomes a full blown bust and chase. You can always "let is slide" as the dog gets into hunting mode. Heck, the training will slip simply by your failure to reinforce. Something to think about...after you do the yardwork to get the obedience down.

RayG

Alright, no stimulation. He is solid on whistle recall so I will do that. He is steady to flush, and lets me walk in front to flush the bird, then he chases. I could also plant the birds in the woods, and I heard that the bird will fly then land in briars so the dog can't get it. Anyone ever done this? Thanks for the help guys!

I always start in the yard. Get the young dog all excited about the birds, wind them up if you will. Then drop the pigeon and the dog will chase. Then I put a checkcord on the dog and attach it too a stake out. The dog has approx. 22 ft. too work with. Set the dog up with about 6ft. loop in the cord and drop a bird in front of him. He will hit the end of the cord and get a correction. I am silent and say nothing. Repeat this as many times as needed, but it usually only takes about 6 pigeons and the dog will not move when the bird is flighted. The dog will stand and watch the bird fly away. I want too make it his idea not too chase. Then I remove the checkcord from the post and move too a different location in the yard. Now I will stand on the cord and repeat the process. If he does it correctly I can move again and will not stand on cord but will be ready to step on it if the dog would break but it hardly ever happens. If it does go back too stepping on it. If the dog has been properly introduced to gunfire I will then blank off the gun, I will either attach the cord or step on it depending on the dog. Now I have a dog that is standing through the drop/flush/blank. I move all over the yard doing this. He has taught himself not too chase and has respect for the checkcord. Now the dog is ready for Whoa training. Once the whoa training is done I will move to the Collar like the Smith method mentioned above and remove the cord. Very easy on the dogs and there is no negative association with the word Whoa. I just repeat the above with the collar. All this takes me about 2 30 min training sessions. Then just overlay this too the field.

13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.

Whoa break the dog, should be done first. Dogs seem to run off cliffs, into rivers roads, etc.

Ok, I'm a beginner, but here it goes. How do you know if a dog is "woah broke?" If I tell my dog woah, he immediately stops and stands still until I tell him ok. I will throw things, kick at a bush, have people run around, and he doesn't move. So, how do you tell if a dog is whoa broke?

If the dog is on whoa and you flush or toss a bird and the dog chases, then that dog is not broke on whoa. Is the your britt collar conditioned?

He is collar conditioned. How do you break them on woah? Make a lot of distractions?

ruffbritt4 wrote:He is collar conditioned. How do you break them on woah? Make a lot of distractions?

Do some whoa drills with a checkcord. Put the dog on whoa and launch or toss some birds. I like to start this drill when the dog whoas close to 100% off lead in the field. The dog needs to associate the correction with the command and not the bird. Might create a blinker if you put the cart before the horse. Hope this helps. Have fun

ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.

What are you training him for?

polmaise wrote:

ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.

What are you training him for?

I am training him for grouse and woodcock, if that is what you mean.

ruffbritt4 wrote:

polmaise wrote:

ruffbritt4 wrote:13 mo. he is a brittany, he is pretty good on whoa but not whoa broke. he isn't steady to wing and shot and i don't plan on training him for it.

What are you training him for?

I am training him for grouse and woodcock, if that is what you mean.

Are you training him to stop chasing these grouse and woodcock?.
It's just that (the way I read your post) - forgive me I'm a bit thick!...and from Scotland so please bear with me?..If you don't plan on on training him to be steady ''to wing and shot'' ?
You can surely appreciate my question?

I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!

If thats all your trying to do you need a solid recall by voice and whistle.....and that would be basic Obedience.....

I disagree with everyone one of you. Let him learn to hunt and point the first two years to bring out his natural talent. Chasing birds will add fire in the dog to hunt and find birds. Keep it fun, keep your mouth shut except for praise and no corrections.

After 2 years of this then start the formal training including stop to flush

No need to delay training when it can be done with minimal pressure. Bad habits can be avoided instead of broken later.

ruffbritt4 wrote:I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!

If it's eventually being used as a game finder ,then the 'game' will teach him much better than you or I ,not to chase. So get as much game in front of him as possible ,sit back and watch the show.

polmaise wrote:

ruffbritt4 wrote:I don't plan on training him to be steady to wing and shot, but was asking how to call him off the chase. Thanks for all your help guys!

If it's eventually being used as a game finder ,then the 'game' will teach him much better than you or I ,not to chase. So get as much game in front of him as possible ,sit back and watch the show.

But the dog still won't come when called unless trained to do so. The earlier you start, the easier. You'lll also run into dogs that NEVER get tired of the chase. Then you have a problem. Allowing uncontrolled chase has one predictable result with a dog: It disturbs previously undisturbed cover and is of benefit to no one.

My reply was to the OP gonehuntin' , not what I would do ,or recommend to anyone who wanted to train a dog to be steady on wing and shot
Re-call I teach at 8 weeks old and repeat daily. This one is passed that.
Having no game left to chase stops even the hardest of them 'Never get tired of the chase' types How one does this is entirely up to the individuals availability of resources.
Of course they could just take it to a trainer.?

I decided to train to steady to shot. My dad held him on the checkcord until i flushed and shot the bird, when the bird started to fall, i let him go fetch.

ruffbritt4 wrote:I decided to train to steady to shot. My dad held him on the checkcord until i flushed and shot the bird, when the bird started to fall, i let him go fetch.

That's the ticket!..
Your dad is probably the best and nearest to get you on the right track?> rather than some on here that may lead you on a path that is confusing, since they don't have the dog that you have?

That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.

This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.

birddog1968 wrote:That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.

This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.

Are you saying that there is actually more than one program or process that actually suits the dog!? rather than the poster on here?..Wow!...
Now...what's the plan?
I'm genuinely interested!. Stop to flush before the dog starts to pointing birds??..now how do we do that exactly?Hmmm!.... then it's ''Simple easy progression with no check cords (most times)Hmmmmm! ...And there is more ways to do just about anything!?
Nothing personal, birddog1968 , just trying to get a handle on it from a training point of view

birddog1968 wrote:That will definatly work if you stick with it, but its going to take time and then you have to have a plan when the dog comes off the check cord.

This is the reason I stop to flush before the dog ever starts pointing birds, then its a simple easy progression with no checkcords (most times). The dog is stop to flushed off lead and check cord , starts pointing birds without a check cord and is steadied thru the shot without checkcords. But there is more than one way to do just about anything.

+1

If you want to take it a step further, stop to flush, stop to shot, stop to flush and shot, stop to flush-shot-fall can all be taught off check cord before the dog starts pointing birds. I have mine pointing birds and steady to the flush off check cord before I start the steadiness program. For me, it seems to make the transition through the steadiness program progress a little quicker. Several ways to do things.....just have to find one that works best for you!

cr

polmaise wrote:.......just trying to get a handle on it from a training point of view

I can send you a short outline that I use similar to his if you are interested.

I have a 1.5 yr Golden that wants to chase when I miss the bird. Whistle, No Bird! and Shock aren't working and she's gone for 10 - 15 minutes.

I don't have access to birds to try some of the exercises. She does come when I whistle or here - but loves to chase.

Would training dummies work? Throw and command no? Seems confusing for the dog...

Need direction. Thanks!

jonnyb wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 16, 2024 5:55 am

I have a 1.5 yr Golden that wants to chase when I miss the bird. Whistle, No Bird! and Shock aren't working and she's gone for 10 - 15 minutes.

I don't have access to birds to try some of the exercises. She does come when I whistle or here - but loves to chase.

Would training dummies work? Throw and command no? Seems confusing for the dog...

Need direction. Thanks!

Funny that you replied to my thread from years ago just weeks after I got back on the forum with a new account!

A golden is different than a pointing dog obviously, but what I have had success with is throwing pigeons until the dog flat out learns they won't catch one. I'm sure someone around you has pigeons or you could find some to trap