Teaching a dog to pattern off of an ATV

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:50 am

Just curious if some of you more experienced folks out there would give some pointers of how you have done this. I noticed it on another thread.

The small amount of training that I have done off of an atv has been on roads bordering the edges of fields. I have alway intended it to be exercise but it turns out to be more than just exercise as I noticed my dogs start hunting objectives. One of the benefits I have really noticed is my dogs really started staying out front and in my young dog it really helped to build his confidence.

Anyone have experience with this. Methods etc?

Thanks in advance for the info.

Scott

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:03 am

The breeder I got my dog from is accomplished in AKC field trials. He runs his dogs in a free style off his ATV. He starts by making them chase him. He transitions to them running next to him and then comes the shocker. Literally. Most dogs of his dogs want to lead at this point. But, if he has issues getting them in front of the atv he gives them a little bump on the e-collar so they run away from the atv.

His method must work. A national amateur field championship and about 8 dual champions of his. This doesn't count pups from his stock.

sharptailhunter · Post by **sharptailhunter** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:35 pm

What's wrong with doing it the old fashioned way... foot traffic, either by human or horse? ATVs leave tracks that never seem to go away.

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:00 pm

What's wrong with doing it the old fashioned way... foot traffic, either by human or horse? ATVs leave tracks that never seem to go away.

Horses would be the preferred way by me and most people but it is tough to do, keeping an ATV costs much less than keeping a horse.

Foot traffic creates a problem for FTing because the dogs begin to check back to close, a yo-yo effect, while not bad for hunting will prevent you from winning in many FT.

larue · Post by **larue** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:10 pm

I live on 330 acres of land,have 2 horses in the corral,but in most cases I train of of a wheeler.I can concentrate on the dogs totally with the wheeler,it stops when I stop it,and it goes where I need it to.
I run the dogs off of the horses enough to hve them handle off of them,but the wheeler is just so much easier,throw a crate of birds on it,a gun,and go run some dogs(its a honda).
the dogs will track a horse or a wheeler just the same to them.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:04 pm

I would think if the dog already handles reasonably well from foot or horse that it should be no different. If you can turn your dog by voice than that should be all you need.

Although in Scotts situation which is probably much like mine we cannot just turn anywhere while on an ATV to encorage a dog to move back to the front. We can only do this when there is a turn in the road or another road intersects. Driving of trail in the desert is not only frowned apon but illegal.

The few times I have ran a dog from an ATV they handled as if I was horse back. Than again he handles like a Porsche. I just dont like doing it cause I find myself holloring louder than necessary because of the noisy exaust.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:44 pm

But, if he has issues getting them in front of the atv he gives them a little bump on the e-collar so they run away from the atv.

Not sure you meant it the way it sounds but whip running, whether with a whip or ecollar, is not something I'd recommend from someones training methods or as a key to the success of their dogs. I would bet, & hope, that he's bumping them with the collar to keep them hunting to the front - not bumping them to "run away from the atv". There's a big difference!

I don't own an ATV. I can see their place for conditioning, but I hate the idea of hunting/training dogs off of them. Theoretically that limits you to road hunting doesn't it??

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:05 am

You don't have to road on a "road." On the property we use there is a field with a access roads/paths mowed into it with some paths through the woods, etc. The dogs love running in front of the atv, so we just take off on a tree line and the dogs soon figure out that's what you want. We run several laps and switch up the pattern, so they don't get bored. I guess it's just as much as a conditioning thing as a patterning thing.

The guy doesn't bump them much. Just enough to get them in front of the atv. You should hear his kennel when an atv starts up. Man!!!!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:26 am

Ditto what Doug said about whip running. I have told this story before so sorry if it is repetitive but it illustrates the problem.

Some years ago I helped out a friend trying to train a dog. He had gotten the dog, a Britt, from a local pro. The Britt was heck on wheels when it came to running in field trials. Nothing could beat it on the ground, but the pro could not keep it broke. He gave it to my friend to try to break it.

My friend decided to try use an ecollar on the dog to break it. The plan was simple, set up a planted bird, if the dog broke hit it with the collar. So we planted the bird, turned the dog loose, it went on point, it broke, and friend hit it with the collar.

That dog immediately turned 180 degrees and began to line out full speed. Friend had to get in his truck, drive like heck, and was able to cut the dog off two section roads down it was still going full speed.

In talking to the pro about the problem, he had used a collar to train the dog to run. Every time it got close he hit it with the collar and chased at it with horse. Whip run.

No one ever was able to break that dog as far as I know. It sure did run.

So whip running is not a good thing. Using a collar on momentary to train a dog to handle and turn to the front is a different thing and works fine.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:27 am

He doesn't whip run them. I am sure of that. He only bumps them if he has to - and that is not very often. Some he never has to.

I hear what you are saying about that whip-running. I would run from you too. You wouldn't catch me though....

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:43 am

I would run from you too. You wouldn't catch me though....

Not if it was a footrace, that's for sure. But don't let me get around you on horseback or you are toast.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:14 am

I thought this might be an interesting topic. I have never taught my dogs to pattern off of an atv. I have worked with them on foot and horseback but never the atv. Like Casper mentioned we can't really zig zag and what not across the desert they really frown on that here. But I do let my dogs free run off of the four wheeler they seem to quarter and hunt objectives well this way. I mainly use this as a method of exercise as I rarely have birds out while doing this.

Thanks again for all of the responses. There is a great wealth of experience on here.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:14 am

Would you like some jelly with that toast?

See, I would run right to my truck and that would be the end of that chase.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:21 am

No, whole wheat dry thanks.

You would not make it to the truck.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:00 am

You must have one heck of a mount

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:46 am

Well now you have me blushing. Yes, I have been told that but more when I was younger.

I have a fast horse too.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:09 pm

Woah Woah Woah! We run a PG rated forum!

As for running off an ATV, a dog will want to run out front more with maturity and confidence. It just takes time, no real magic. And a dog will learn not to get too close to the ATV once it learns that you won't slow down. For my dog, he got a paw clipped for running too close to a golf cart. Didn't hurt him a bit, but scared the bejeezus outta him. I wouldn't suggest going out and hitting your dog with your ATV, but they end up learning, if you know what I mean.

Post by **grant** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:19 am

Buckeye_V wrote:You must have one heck of a mount

lol!

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:21 am

Just having a little fun