Retriever not.... retreiving?

Icehouse · Post by **Icehouse** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:09 pm

I have a yellow lab.. She's 13 weeks old...

I've been playing "fetch" with her since I got her at 7 weeks. She has had off and on interest.

A week and a half ago, I let her mess around with a live quail. She was excited, and interested, but not quite to the extent I wanted. She comes from supposedly good hunting lines... Some championships on her fathers side... many in fact... But not anything from her mothers side as far as championships, though her mother did hunt a lot.

Lately, her interest in retrieving has been fading more and more. Its to the point now where she may, or may not bring the dummy back to me. I used to have no problem with her bringing it back. She seems excited when we start to play... she wants the dummy bad... but after I throw it, she just goes up to it.. mouths it a little, and then finds something else to do.

Should I worry? Or, what should I be doing different?

Thanks!
Chad

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:16 pm

Chad, some dogs just view dummies as play, and not very interesting play. I am not a lab guy. But my current GSP will do the same thing you talk about - with dummies. She is heck on wheels with real birds though.

Unless you want to force break the dog, which requires quite a bit of pressure, and since the dog is for hunting and not for field trialing, so what if it does not like to play with chunks of canvas and kapok. What does it do with real birds, that is the question?

odie · Post by **odie** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:58 pm

as wagonmaster mentioned, some are just not that enthused with dummies. However, there is a possibility that the "fetch" has been overworked and pup is already bored with it as well. Pup is still young, give the fetch thing a break and come back to it in a week or so if you think overworked could be a possibility.

overdoing it could be as much as just throwing the dummy one time too many in a session. Young pups are easily distracted.

One question I have is what are your actions when pup runs up and only sniffs or mouths the dummy?

Icehouse · Post by **Icehouse** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:10 pm

WEll, my reaction... is hopefully the right one.

As she approaches the dummy, I've been saying "back" ( the word I plan on using for fetch), and been praising the heck out of her... Good Girl! etc. Lots of excited praise.

When she just mouths it, then turns attention elsewhere, my praise stops. I turn my back... and completely ignore her for a few seconds. Today, I think I got a bit frustrated and said NO! sternly as she passed it up.

I have a dead quail that I keep in the freezer. She was retrieving that just fine last time I used it.

Should I take a break for a week, as suggested, then come back using a real dead bird? If only for a throw or 2 to keep her REALLY interested? If she goes hard for the quail, should I keep using it? Eventually, for training, she's gonna HAVE to be on dummies for water training, I would think.

Chad

original mngsp · Post by **original mngsp** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:43 pm

never having had labs I'm not sure about thier maturation rate or how they take more formal training, but with my pointing dogs at 13 weeks I'd be just worrying about a few simple rules to live with, exposure to new people and things, and just being thier buddy.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:35 pm

Well I am no expert on labs, but have one and have trained several. Most lab puppies I have seen are retrieving play games very young 6 -12 weeks old, but I would only expect maybe 2-3 retieves per play session at first.
It does sound like you MAY have a reduced drive, BUT not every lab starts early and the dummy may not be her "thing." What type of dummy are you using and does she play with it without you?

First please do not over do the birds. Bird work is the end game. You want her to be exposed so she is not afraid rather very curious, but birds should remain a bit of a curious mystery that she REALLY wants to learn about. Too much bird retrieving young can give you hard mouth, bird chewing, or eating issues as well as just plain losing some of the thrill of actually getting to work with the real thing.

Second I would give her a few days off. Mostly for you. Focus yourself and DON'T get mad at her. Your ignoring game is good, but pick up the toy and take it away too. You could do two things that could make a real difference.

1. Find a TOY that she loves. Not a dummy (since she already shows not too much interest in it) Usually a fuzzy toy or squeaky toy will do great, but sometimes the bouncing of a tennis ball does well to. Experiment a little and find a toy that she wants to chase and carry. I'd bet one of these will make a world of difference at first. Let me know. Oddly I have found that puppies love empty slightly squished plastic "coke" bottles. It's crinkly and loud. Actually I was taught to use them for noise intoduction to let puppies get used to loud popping and cracking, but they really seem to love it if they are bold. Just see what you can get her to like. (But of course do not leave it with her alone she could chew it up and choke :roll: you know puppies)

2. Second find a longish straight hall. Preferrably after you have found a thrilling toy, find a hall in your house with very few distractions where you can shut all the doors. You SIT in the only way out and shake the toy around her, bounce it gently if it's a tennis ball squeak it make it the most fun hope it around and drag it around her feet until she tries to grab it. then toss or roll it just a few feet away. The theory is the hall is boring, there is no where to go and nothing to do besides this exciting toy. She should at least run to it. If she picks it up, just let her carry it around or plop down and chew it or whatever don't try to get it from her. At this stage she and the toy should all be with in reaching distance. So if she has room to run away with it you should scoot closer to the end of the hall. If she happens to bring it near you praise her while toy is still in her mouth and give her time with it before you try again. If she drops it near you, just take the toy and do the shaking dragging thing again until she wants it. Remember 2 or 3 times no more. Praise praise praise and when your done or when she quits pick up the toy and put it away.

If you try this let me know how she reacts, and I'll see where to go from there. It's hard to give advice without really seeing the dogs behaviour so the best discription you can give the better.

Good luck,
Laurie

EWSIV · Post by **EWSIV** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:50 am

Icehouse,

How many retrieves are you doing per day? I would not do more than 2 or 3. Pups get bored very easily. Also, are you trying to steady her at all? I would not worry about steadiness until she is older. There is a big time field champion that runs in the NW that supposedly showed absolutely no desire to retrieve until he was well past six months. Also, it would be very early, but what you describe sounds like a dog that is teething.

Describe the retrieves. Hand thrown? Bird Boy? Cover? Distance? Are you using a check cord?

Today, I think I got a bit frustrated and said NO! sternly as she passed it up.

That is a big no-no. A 13 week old pup can do no wrong when it it comes to retrieving. Show and feel no emotion and act aloof if she does not retrieve. You do not want any negative experience associated with retrieving.

As she approaches the dummy, I've been saying "back"

I would not say anything as she approaches the dummy. If you want to send her from your side on 'back' or her name then I would do that, but yelling a command right before she fetches the dummy can only be confusing.

Finally, for puppy stuff I would purchase The Ten Minute Retriver by John and Amy Dahl and Smartwork I and Smartfetch by Evan Graham for basic retrieving.

Will

hilljec · Post by **hilljec** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:11 am

My lab went through the same thing. She would run to get the dummy, but not pick it up. This went on for a month or so before she would ever retrieve it. I just think it is something that they go through at that age, easily distracted by everything. Now my dog is a retrieving machine and sometimes I get tired myself from throwing the dummy!

Icehouse · Post by **Icehouse** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:36 pm

Thanks for all the tips!

Yeah... I'm throwing them by hand... in my front yard.

I started out in the upstairs hallway...And did exactly as mountaindogs said.

I think I'm just gonna hold off on the retrieves for awhile.... maybe a week...

Then I'll start back up with the dummy. I am using a pheasant scent on the dummy, maybe I shouldn't do that?

I'm not overly concerned... just wondering if what I"m going through is normal. Sounds like I shouldn't be too worried...

Thanks All!

BTW-

I have Game Dog by Wolters, and the 10 minute retriever. I'm following a combination of both books... more or less.

Chad

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:06 pm

She might be teething. I would not push it. Give her a break and have fun.