Planting pigeons

[Duckdog]

I don't own any launchers yet, so I'm relying on planted birds.
I've tried dizzying and putting them to sleep, but both have been real inconsistant.
I'll either have a bird still snoozing when I show back up with the pup,
Or, fly off way too soon...sometimes as soon as I set it down.

So, has anyone found a more reliable way of planting pigeons without a launcher?

[S&J gsp]

You could try head tucking a few take the head and tuck it under a wing and shake it about 12-15 times back and fourth than put it down with the head toward the ground. It has worked for me in the past

[moxie]

Before I got launchers I used to head tuck them and loosely wrap a piece of string around them.
If they didn't seem to be up and active i could tug the string and make sure they were roused. It seemed relatively reliable, but it is a lot of interference from you.

The Huntsmith Puppy DVDs show them using a velcro harness thing, so I based my method off of that.
http://www.gundogsupply.com/-3706-.html

All of that said, I am a believer in launchers as they seem to offer optimal control for the handler.
The Higgins releasers are pretty trick as well, if you have good birds that will not allow pressure from the dog.

[Moulders Farm]

Go to a dallar tree store or one like so by some small plastice baskets weight them down tie a long string to it place pigions in basket pull string real slow pigion will walk out then take off works great plus a lot cheaper than a lancher .I have two lanchers but use the baskets most of the time your dog can smell the pogion better plus it puts a lot more pressure on your dog to hold untail bird flys . You will have to have control of your dog not ot jump in at first . OLD SCHOOL

[Stilly Bay]

Make a bunch of kick cages http://www.lcsupply.com/LCS-Kick-Cage/productinfo/KICK/ for the price of the one in this link you could make five or six.

You can tie a string to them and flush the bird from a distance. If the dog does go after the bird he can't get it in his mouth like he could with a planted bird or one in a basket. If things go well enough you might not even feel the need to buy an launcher.

[DonF]

I have home made kick cages but I would not turn a pup loose on them unless it was on the end of a CC and I was on the other. I don't care for having to get to a string to dump birds. I have tried it some a long time ago and found I was normally in a bad position to get to the string. So in your situation I'd get a helper and CC the pup into the bird and give the pup attention while the helper flush's. You could then use the kick cage or put the bird to sleep. Someone described it up above but that's not the way I do it. But bet it will work! Real secret is putting the bird down. With the head tucked under a wing, that wing lays on the ground. Then put some kind of cover on top of the bird. I'll sometimes plant them like that and I'll lay the bird under some kind of brush lying on the ground. It excert's just a bit of force down on the bird And keeps the bird from rolling at all. You can do the best job of putting it to sleep but, if for some reason it rolls off the bottom wing it'll usually bring the bird around. You can struggle through without a helper or you can get a helper and keep your attention on your dog. I suggest a helper.

[roaniecowpony]

+1 to what Don said. A good helper is a really good thing. It also makes training more enjoyable for me. Even with launchers a helper can do things like fire the gun/blank pistol or launch an extra bird from a bag to help with steadiness drills while you are on the checkcord. But I do like my launchers even when helpers are there.

[gundogguy]

For pointing dog only
Tuck the head under a wing pull both legs straight back lay bird on the ground. Simple.. for flushing dogs it is a little different deal.
done easily over a 100,000 in the last 30 yrs I will have to make a clip. cannot tell you how to do it for spaniels and flushing retrievers.

link will go to a you tube of bird being rolled in for a spaniel.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pe3Na80K44

[Tooling]

How the heck is he planting those birds...is he tossing them by hand? If so..he's good at it!!

[CDN_Cocker]

Awesome video! Nice steady dog

[gundogguy]

I have used release traps of some sort but it was a long time a go. maybe 25yrs. I mush prefer to travel light and be able to present me dog with a target when I feel it is appropriate to do so. I much prefer the way the YouTube vid will explain for pointing dogs. This method I have used for planting pigeons, chukars and pheasants. It works equally as well. This is for pointing breeds only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxLICOw ... e=youtu.be

[DonF]

I have used release traps of some sort but it was a long time a go. maybe 25yrs. I mush prefer to travel light and be able to present me dog with a target when I feel it is appropriate to do so. I much prefer the way the YouTube vid will explain for pointing dogs. This method I have used for planting pigeons, chukars and pheasants. It works equally as well. This is for pointing breeds only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxLICOw ... e=youtu.be

Good video. I plant the same way if I don't use my foot traps. Lot easier than having to go out and pick up traps when your done. Planting them as you would for spaniel's works well too but doesn't give you as much time to get to them. Grab them by the back and hold them with the head pointing down. Next twirl the head in circles until the bird start's blinking it's eye's and it's neck gets rubbery. Don't put the bird on the ground, throw it into some good cover. You'll have about 10 min to get the dog there when it's done right and the bird will be up and walking around.

[BRUUUCE]

I have used release traps of some sort but it was a long time a go. maybe 25yrs. I mush prefer to travel light and be able to present me dog with a target when I feel it is appropriate to do so. I much prefer the way the YouTube vid will explain for pointing dogs. This method I have used for planting pigeons, chukars and pheasants. It works equally as well. This is for pointing breeds only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxLICOw ... e=youtu.be

I'm training my lab to flush grouse. I just built a pigeon loft. He loves the clip wing I've been using. Curious, why is the method of planting only used for pointing breeds? Will the pigeon not wake up?

[gundogguy]

I have used release traps of some sort but it was a long time a go. maybe 25yrs. I mush prefer to travel light and be able to present me dog with a target when I feel it is appropriate to do so. I much prefer the way the YouTube vid will explain for pointing dogs. This method I have used for planting pigeons, chukars and pheasants. It works equally as well. This is for pointing breeds only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxLICOw ... e=youtu.be

I'm training my lab to flush grouse. I just built a pigeon loft. He loves the clip wing I've been using. Curious, why is the method of planting only used for pointing breeds? Will the pigeon not wake up?

If you plant your birds as demo in the video you Lab will just go and pick-em up just like my spaniels would. Birds planted in that fashion will stay on the ground a long time. That's why it is more suited for pointing dogs. I'll try to make a video tomorrow planting birds for a flushing dog.
I got a little busy today at class and just could not man the gun and the camera at the same time. I have a young Field spaniel that needs to see some birds fly away, he is newly steady to wing and that would be a good work for him.

[gonehuntin']

I have used release traps of some sort but it was a long time a go. maybe 25yrs. I mush prefer to travel light and be able to present me dog with a target when I feel it is appropriate to do so. I much prefer the way the YouTube vid will explain for pointing dogs. This method I have used for planting pigeons, chukars and pheasants. It works equally as well. This is for pointing breeds only!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyxLICOw ... e=youtu.be

I'm training my lab to flush grouse. I just built a pigeon loft. He loves the clip wing I've been using. Curious, why is the method of planting only used for pointing breeds? Will the pigeon not wake up?

You want to promote a "hard flush", not a tentative one. A flushing dog roading in on a sleeping bird, the catching it, will promote a soft flush.

[gundogguy]

Ok made a vid on planting pigeons for FLUSHING dogs.
pre-planting a bird in the training area then bringing the dog into to area of plant. the dog in this method has not heard or seen the bird planted must fine the bird with his nose flush and produce whatever desire behavior is appropriate at that time. In the video the bird will be pre-planted without the dogs knowledge.
after the bird is planted I will go release the dog let him hunt up the bird and in this dog's case he is expected to be steady and not chase. If an appropriate and safe shot can be taken I will attempt that so as to set up a retrieve. My #1 goal in this exercise other than demo a planted bird and the technique used, and that the flushing the bird is steady. at this time in the dog development the retrieve is down the list a little bit. If I should have to correct the dog at the point of contact there will be no shot fired or retrieve granted in other words the dog must be perfect through, during and after the flush to receive a retrieve. Pre-planted birds would be used primarily with and for dogs at this level.
Rolling- in birds while in the field with dogs maybe used at any time with any dog at any level of development.
during the video after the bird is planted there will be a segment of the clip, that not much is going on, the camera is aimed directly at the spot where the bird is planted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWAU_4mKuk

[polmaise]

Ok made a vid on planting pigeons for FLUSHING dogs.
pre-planting a bird in the training area then bringing the dog into to area of plant. the dog in this method has not heard or seen the bird planted must fine the bird with his nose flush and produce whatever desire behavior is appropriate at that time. In the video the bird will be pre-planted without the dogs knowledge.
after the bird is planted I will go release the dog let him hunt up the bird and in this dog's case he is expected to be steady and not chase. If an appropriate and safe shot can be taken I will attempt that so as to set up a retrieve. My #1 goal in this exercise other than demo a planted bird and the technique used, and that the flushing the bird is steady. at this time in the dog development the retrieve is down the list a little bit. If I should have to correct the dog at the point of contact there will be no shot fired or retrieve granted in other words the dog must be perfect through, during and after the flush to receive a retrieve. Pre-planted birds would be used primarily with and for dogs at this level.
Rolling- in birds while in the field with dogs maybe used at any time with any dog at any level of development.
during the video after the bird is planted there will be a segment of the clip, that not much is going on, the camera is aimed directly at the spot where the bird is planted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWAU_4mKuk

That's why I'm here 'gundogguy'!..It's not how or why you folks do things , It's more how I can learn from them ?
Here is a little of the same from Our training day ,this very day!...I do similar ,but I have a class of 3 springers and 3 retrievers for our game!, so 'judging' the amount of 'dizzy' on each bird for 'each dog and handler, on such a day is a little different I know!...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOAt9xTF7N0

[CDN_Cocker]

Was that an american cocker I seen? Never seen one with a full tail. What a peculiar choice for a gun dog lol.

[gundogguy]

Ok made a vid on planting pigeons for FLUSHING dogs.
pre-planting a bird in the training area then bringing the dog into to area of plant. the dog in this method has not heard or seen the bird planted must fine the bird with his nose flush and produce whatever desire behavior is appropriate at that time. In the video the bird will be pre-planted without the dogs knowledge.
after the bird is planted I will go release the dog let him hunt up the bird and in this dog's case he is expected to be steady and not chase. If an appropriate and safe shot can be taken I will attempt that so as to set up a retrieve. My #1 goal in this exercise other than demo a planted bird and the technique used, and that the flushing the bird is steady. at this time in the dog development the retrieve is down the list a little bit. If I should have to correct the dog at the point of contact there will be no shot fired or retrieve granted in other words the dog must be perfect through, during and after the flush to receive a retrieve. Pre-planted birds would be used primarily with and for dogs at this level.
Rolling- in birds while in the field with dogs maybe used at any time with any dog at any level of development.
during the video after the bird is planted there will be a segment of the clip, that not much is going on, the camera is aimed directly at the spot where the bird is planted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWAU_4mKuk

That's why I'm here 'gundogguy'!..It's not how or why you folks do things , It's more how I can learn from them ?
Here is a little of the same from Our training day ,this very day!...I do similar ,but I have a class of 3 springers and 3 retrievers for our game!, so 'judging' the amount of 'dizzy' on each bird for 'each dog and handler, on such a day is a little different I know!...

'Very nice, I love group work-outs like "the Beating Line" or in the case of retrievers running the Gauntlet for a mark. It provides so many factors for dog and handler to have be aware of and over come. Martin Deeley show us 'the Running the gauntlet exercise exercise a few years back in New York. I use it often when I have a group of retriever types.
However there is very little beating and picking going on here in the US and dogs need to be conditioned to do the job alone, or possible with a bracemate. Here is a vid where the target bird has been pre-planted for a young spaniel that is fully trained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I8eS1SjalE

The bulk of my work involves this type of upland training development. Look forward seeing and hearing more about the work you do!
Cheers

[polmaise]

Was that an american cocker I seen? Never seen one with a full tail. What a peculiar choice for a gun dog lol.

Yea, but he keeps thinking he is a retriever ? :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPAfE-VolK0

I think we may get him 'pointing' next

[CDN_Cocker]

What would possess one of you folks over there to get one of them when you already have the superior cocker breed?

[polmaise]

We thought we would sort that one for you as well.

[crackerd]

Given what we've got to work with over here, Robt.'s going after the Boykin next - gonna teach 'em to do proper Scotch eggs,



both delivery to hand before laying



and presentation and preparation after coming from afield.



MG

[polmaise]

That's the next quest MG ! just none over here
Reckon they would take on the Boldest of Haggi.

[DonF]

Squirt got into the habit of getting eggs off the chicken nest's and bringing them to me. Pretty funny watching it and he never broke one. Bodie is soft mouthed to do it too but he's never picked one up. They go into the hen house and catch the "bleep" birds in there. Then bring them to me so I can turn them loose outside, I guess that's why they bring them to me!

[polmaise]

Sounds about right!..Mine bring all manner of things! some I would rather not have, but each is gratefully received

[gonehuntin']

Experiment with weight on the birds. Tie about a one ounce weight to the birds leg on a 6" line. The bird should fly 75-100 yards and sit down. I use orange flagging to find them.

[Duckdog]

I've got a couple of real narcoleptic pigeons. Just poke their head under their wing and they're in la-la land!
You just about have to kick em to make em fly!