snake trainer...what to look for?

[Rocio.Varela]

I am in need of a snake trainer in Arizona. Anybody know of a trainer? What do I need to ask and look for in a snake trainer? What's the best way to train for snake avoidance?

I have a 4yr and a 1yr old dog that I need trained.

[deseeker]

PM kninebirddog on the forum--I think her kennel does it--if they don't do the snake training, she will know someone that does snake train

[kninebirddog]

You can contact Bob Henson 520-709-1019

There are others that do this but look for those that use real Live rattlesnakes not other snakes and people who start the process that have the rattlesnake in the open as to not make your dog fearful of other objects in the process.....The dog should think that the snake is what bit them bit not a bush or glass terrarium or mesh bag or piece of carpet

The dog needs to think that when all is said and done that Mean snake is what got him ..some people make this huge production out of it...even seen one where they person say process takes a couple hours :roll: ..I have no clue how they can make a 10-15 minute process at most take a couple hours
Any ways good luck

Snake Avoidance helps to prevent the majority of dogs from going in and getting directly hit by a snake it will never stop accidental run overs which on a general rule or not as bad as a direct hit from a curious dog as general run over will result in what is refered to as a dry bite ...A snake isn't going to waste precious venom on something it isn't going to eat unless it feels truly threatened but even residual venom can cause some pretty good swelling and even secondary infection which that is most the time what is the worst for dogs
Unless of course your are dealing with the Mohave their poison is pretty lethal to dogs and even people

Good Luck

[moxie]

The Grand Canyon NAVHDA chapter uses Blankenburg Kennels.
http://www.bkgsps.com/snake.html

Good option if you aren't in the Phoenix area.

[Rocio.Varela]

I'm in the phoenix area right now but will be moving back to Benson, Arizona in the next month or so. Want my dogs trained for avoidance...a little training is better than no training.

What do you guys think of the snake venom vaccine? A good safety measure? Cheap insurance if it does or doesn't work? Won't hurt to get them for my 2 dogs?......I've had my 4yr old on the vaccine just incase he did get bit but ive been in the city for the past year and Havnt kept up with the booster shots.

[AZSetter]

The Grand Canyon NAVHDA chapter uses Blankenburg Kennels.
http://www.bkgsps.com/snake.html

Good option if you aren't in the Phoenix area.

+1 for blankenburg kennels. I rechecked mine a year later and as soon as she got wind of that snake she was like a sled dog getting the heck out of the area. Good option even if you have to make the drive.

[moxie]

I haven't given the vaccine yet, Bullet is only a little over 5 months, but I was talking to the local NAVHDA president about it the other day.
Just due to the fact that it gives you extra time to get to a hospital I think it would probably be worth it. You never know where you are going to be, anything would help.

Would love to hear what others think about the vaccine as well.

[kninebirddog]

I look at snake avoidance as Insurance and the vaccine as uninsured motorist insurance
it is not good against the Mohave snakes venom
And since it create a fake titer in the body in order for it to be effective it here in the desert areas needs to be given every 6 months and even then if the dog gets struck in a vital area there is no guarantee that it will save the dog ..I do know of dogs that still died when struck in the chest area a month after getting the 2nd dose.
I know of dogs that have gotten pretty good infections from the shot itself.
Personally I still haven't bought into the vaccine
Over the years I have had a couple dogs get struck by rattle snakes and some antibiotics and a couple a shot those cattle dogs and bird dogs were just fine.

[DonF]

I've hunted in snake country for a long time. Had a GSP years ago, one of my two favorite dog's, that would point the d*mn things. That can be real bad. Puts the dogs head and throat area right in then snakes face. Yet the only dog I ever had bit was my Squirt. Pretty sure he ran over the snake as it got him in the ankle. I stay out of areas I know snakes to be and start hunting after they go down in the fall. I checked into the anti venom also but not sold on it. No assurance the dog will live even with it. I think it was Bobby Buff that lost a dog to snake bite about the same time Squirt got hit. His dog took a bite to the chest and as I recall, it got a lung. Kind of a hopeless situation. His son shot the snake before it got another dog. That was a really sad story. I have read the exploits of some other's here in Oregon that have had dogs snake bit. Dog's hit by snake's that survived. The deal being the place they were bit. One dog caught it on the nose and survived. A friend years ago that trained in S. Arizona every winter had one of his dog's bit down there. She got it in the flank. he got back up here with it and she was fine but all the skin on the flank was rotting off. Knowing him, she didn't get to a vet. About the Mohave snake, don't know a thing about them but I have heard they are a lot harder on the dog.

[roaniecowpony]

I had my two dogs go thru the avoidance session a month or so ago. Good thing I did. The old lab stuck her nose at it, and she'd been to a snake session years ago.

Last fall was starting out warm. I spoke with my vet. She really thought the vaccine was worth the relatively low risk of an adverse reaction. The vaccine is for the western diamondback. It may or may not be effective with other hemotoxic rattlers. It won't help with the neurotoxic venom effects of the mojave rattlers (a.k.a. mojave greens). My dogs are vaccinated now.

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I have been taking my dogs to Bob Hansen for 10+ years and he has done about 15 dogs for me. I never had one fail a recheck that I can recall. He comes up to the mountains every may and holds a clinic for or Club. He did 35 dogs this past may.

I give the RR shot to my competition dogs that travel. Don't know if it works but both are cheap insurance considering the cost of Crofab.

[SubMariner]

I haven't given the vaccine yet, Bullet is only a little over 5 months, but I was talking to the local NAVHDA president about it the other day.
Just due to the fact that it gives you extra time to get to a hospital I think it would probably be worth it. You never know where you are going to be, anything would help.

Would love to hear what others think about the vaccine as well.

Since none of the snakes used in the vaccine are indigenous to FL, the vaccine is useless to us down here.

Many of the local clubs will put on snake avoidance clinics.

[Brazosvalleyvizslas]

The vaccine helps with all Rattlers including the Mojave because snakes will inner breed and Mojave's can
have both Hemo and Nervo toxins. The word "help" is key and does'nt mean that it will prevent a problem. I know dogs that were hit before and after being vaccinated and the ones vaccinated did much better with lower Vet bill.

I dont know of a trainer in AZ but it sounds like K9 does.

[roaniecowpony]

I agree with BVV. It will may help with all the hemotoxic rattlers as well as the hemotoxic effects of the mojave green. But it won't do anything to help the neurotoxic effects of the dual hemo/neuro venom of the mojave green. The neurotoxin is capable of stopping breathing and heart functions.

[kninebirddog]

PLEASE PEOPLE GET YOURSELVEES INFORMED
http://www.redrockbiologics.com/rattles ... ne_faq.php
this is a quote DIRECTLY from the company that makes this shot please note the highlighted in red as to what snakes this vaccine does not protect against

What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against?
Crotalus Atrox Toxoid (rattlesnake vaccine for dogs) was developed to provide protection for dogs against Western Diamondback Rattlesnake venom. It is most effective against this snake's venom. Venom from many other snakes found throughout the United States is similar to the venom of the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. Thus, this vaccine may also provide protection against the venoms of the Western Rattlesnake (including the Prairie, Great Basin, Northern and Southern Pacific varieties), Sidewinder, Timber Rattlesnake, Massasauga and the Copperhead. Partial protection may be obtained against Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake venom.This vaccine does not provide protection against venom from the Water Moccasin (Cottonmouth), Mojave Rattlesnake or Coral Snake

and then

v
Frequently Asked Questions

FOR DOGS
FOR HORSES
For dogs
Should my dog be vaccinated?
If your dog lives, works or plays where rattlesnakes live, you should consider a rattlesnake vaccine. Approximately 300,000 dogs and cats are bitten by venomous snakes each year in the United States. Rattlesnake venom can cause serious injury and even death.

What types of snakes does this vaccine protect against?
Crotalus Atrox Toxoid (rattlesnake vaccine for dogs) was developed to provide protection for dogs against Western Diamondback Rattlesnake venom. It is most effective against this snake's venom. Venom from many other snakes found throughout the United States is similar to the venom of the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake. Thus, this vaccine may also provide protection against the venoms of the Western Rattlesnake (including the Prairie, Great Basin, Northern and Southern Pacific varieties), Sidewinder, Timber Rattlesnake, Massasauga and the Copperhead. Partial protection may be obtained against Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake venom.This vaccine does not provide protection against venom from the Water Moccasin (Cottonmouth), Mojave Rattlesnake or Coral Snake.

How well does this vaccine work?
As part of its licensing process, this vaccine was shown in dogs to generate protective antibodies against rattlesnake venom. Protective antibodies function by neutralizing rattlesnake venom. Dogs with protective antibodies are reported to experience less pain and have a reduced risk of permanent injury from rattlesnake bite. Veterinarians typically report that vaccinated dogs bitten by rattlesnakes experience less swelling, less tissue damage and a faster recovery from snakebite than unvaccinated dogs. Several factors may influence antibody effectiveness against venomous snakebite. Snake-related factors include the snake species, age of the snake and amount of venom injected. Dog-related factors include location of the bite, how well the dog responded to the vaccine and the length of time since the last dose of vaccine was administered.

How long does protection last? How often should my dog be vaccinated?
Our research indicates that the maximum protection generated by vaccination with this product typically becomes available about four to six weeks after the most recent vaccine booster dose. That protection then declines slowly over time. On average, vaccinated dogs receive good protection for about six months after boostering. Depending on the dog, some protection may continue out to a year or longer.

The first time your dog is vaccinated, we recommend an initial vaccine injection followed by a booster dose about one month later. We recommend then boostering each subsequent year.

Typically, boostering would involve a single dose at the start of the rattlesnake season in your area. However, there are circumstances such as your dog’s anticipated exposure to rattlesnakes or the size of your dog where, in consultation with your veterinarian, you may wish to booster your dog with this product two or even three times per year.
.......................

please see link above to read the rest of the FAQ sectionto educate yourself on what this company is trying to offer with this shot

again this is directly stated from the redrocks biologics website as to what to do if your vaccinated dog is bit by a rattlesnake

What should I do if my vaccinated dog is bitten by a rattlesnake?
Snakebite is always an emergency. Even a vaccinated dog should be taken to a veterinarian for evaluation and care as soon as possible following snakebite. Veterinarians can determine if the dose of venom received is more than your dog’s immunity can handle and administer appropriate treatment as required. Even bites by non-venomous snakes can lead to serious infections and antibiotic treatment may be needed. A veterinarian is the best person to consult regarding medical decisions for your dog

In other words this shot does not make your dog impervious to snake bites.

[kninebirddog]

To add here in Sonoita AZ it was in the single digits in the morning at the Brittany trials this year and during one of the afternoons there was a rattlesnake killed.
I believe jessica had a dog get bit in 2011
a couple years ago Hank Hartnek had a Mojave rattler under his trailer step at the same time of year january brittany trial there in sonoita.I know of more rattlesnakes that have met thier demise being seen versus dogs tha have been bit down south during the winter months here in az...

I know of a dog that was bit in amarillo tx some years back was a pup I sold to this guy he was goose hunting in the Am busting ice and his dog was bit by a rattler later that afternoon in the same area. the dog ran over the snake and his vet only gave the dog some cortizone shots and antibiotics.this was before this vaccine shot came out dog faired very well as dogs have done for many many years

any of you that have been over on PDJ know of Colt, Zachs dog ...this dog had his 2 shots and was past 30 days after the second shot when colt was struck in the chest area by a Texas rattler only to pass away hours later.