Planting Birds...

[John S]

Scout has a NAVHDA Na test coming up in a few weeks. I want to do some more work with him and will be picking up some Chukar in a few days to plant around the yard. This is going to be strictly check cord and point/hold training.
My question is what is the best way to restrict and plant the birds? I dont want them flying off the first day. Should I tether them or pull primary feathers? What about dizzying? I've never actually planted birds so this is new to me and any guidance is appreciated.

[RichK]

You will have to have a game bird license in NY to possess Chukar.

[John S]

I am told that I am covered under our Hunting Preserve, could this be incorrect?

[RichK]

I am told that I am covered under our Hunting Preserve, could this be incorrect?

I would imagine that you would be fine. I just mentioned it because I was looking at doing the same thing and then realized the state would require that I possess a license.

[Shagrunner]

For years I have used chukar over and over by tying about 3-4 feet of string to their leg and attaching the other end to a 10oz. water bottle. I can control how far I want the birds to fly by how much water I put in the bottle. Generally about 1" of water will allow the bird to fly 20 to 30 yards. Of course this depend on how well the birds fly. But if it's too far put in more water, if it's not far enough pour some water out. This has worked very well for me. I've been able to use the same 3-4 chukar for up to a month in this manner. Don't get the string too long of it will get all tangled up in the grass or brush you are working in and defeat the purpose. Shorter is better. Hope this helps. Good luck.

[shags]

Just don't use birds, strings, and weights in areas where there are trees or power lines where the birds can become entangled and you can't release them.

You might consider a pigeon pole. Drill a hole into one end of a 8 or 10 foot piece of pvc pipe. Tie your string into the hole ( the string can be fairly long 20 or 30 feet or more). Pound a piece of larger diameter pvc into the ground, and insert the long section. Fasten the string to the bird's leg, or use a harness. You're ready to go.

One bird can be used two or three times before it gets too tired to fly, and is easily replaced with a fresh one. The birds fly enough to offer a challenge yet can't fly off. The whole thing is portable and can be moved to different areas so your dog won't become sticky. And you won't be explaining to the guy across the road ( and possibly the sheriff) why you've got birds tangled up in the electrical lines.

Good luck with your training.

[volraider]

In Tn we do not need a permit for chukar because they are not considered a game bird because they are no wild chukar here. With quail we do.

The way we put birds down is we put our finger at the base of the birds throat and make a motion like you are stirring something in a bowl. Do this for about 15-20 seconds then hold the bird up, If he can hold his head up spin him again, if he can't hold his head up then throw him on the ground about like bouncing a basketball. He will be dizzy and popping on the ground will knock the air out of him, he should stay there for about 20 or 30 mins. Then he will walk around for a little while before leaving.

Sounds worse than it is.

[DonF]

He want's to be able to reuse the birds. I don't care for the pigeon pole but I think it's your best bet. Make hobbles with pipe cleaner's and tie what ever you have coming off the pole to the hobbles. make a loose spot some where and put in a long rubber band, it'll act like a shock absorber and keep his legs safe, the birds legs. Down side is I'm guessing he's not gonna stand if the bird goes up and off a bit and right down. in that case, you should have him on a check cord and hopefully let someone else flush. If he'll stand till the flush, go around to the front and flush the bird yourself. Keep your cc off the ground, when he goes, don't let him drag it. Stop him, don't jerk him off his feet, just stop him, carry him off and go through it again. Don't do it a whole lot or even every day, he's gonna get wise to the pole and will stop even if he's not in scent. Couple time's every two or three days.

[DoubleBarrel GunDogs]

I don't particularly like using chukars for point drills because many pen raised birds are poor flyers.
You don't want your dog to learn that its ok to trap or root out birds.

Homing pigeons are a better choice in training birds by far. They are durable, versatile, comparatively inexpensive and there are no game laws to be concerned with. If you have the space and opportunity to build a pigeon house, do it. This will save you a lot of money in the long run. Plus once you're set up you'll always have birds on hand. It can be a real hassle or even impossible to get good quail and chukar from April - August. If you have a friend or friends to train dogs with, pool your resources and split the expenses on birds.

The pigeon pole works well for some drills, and the practice of tying a piece of garden hose and string to a bird's leg has its place. But nothing is as good as a bird that will get up and got away. You have the reassurance that the dog won't catch it, and with a pigeon house you can always reuse the bird.

Hope this helps.

Nate

[John S]

All great replies, thanks Guys. Right now i am a bit pressed for time since I was hoping to get some work done before a NAVHDA NA test in a few weeks.
I do have the room, and ultimately I would love to build a coop and keep pigeons on hand but I've been having a bit of trouble locating a suitable source for birds and a decent set of plans for building a reasonably priced coop. I am still looking though.

Chukas would not be my first choice in birds either but Quail are no longer available here locally.

[displaced_texan]

All great replies, thanks Guys. Right now i am a bit pressed for time since I was hoping to get some work done before a NAVHDA NA test in a few weeks.
I do have the room, and ultimately I would love to build a coop and keep pigeons on hand but I've been having a bit of trouble locating a suitable source for birds and a decent set of plans for building a reasonably priced coop. I am still looking though.

Chukas would not be my first choice in birds either but Quail are no longer available here locally.

Plans

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=15397

[RayGubernat]

I used some 1/8" cord to tether pigeons or chuckar. I use drawstring keepers(the kind of spring loaded thingies that hold the cords tight on your rain jackets and hoods) to snug a loop of the cord to each of the bird's legs and tied a 15-0 ft. length of cord onto that harness. An old horseshoe makes a good weight. A 12 oz bank sinker also works pretty well. I had a few of those lying around and the birds would drag them and fly just a little way before coming down.

If you shoot the blank gun just as the bird hits the end of the cord, it comes down in a heap, simulating a shot bird pretty effectively. This really tempts a dog to break.
I snug the fairly heavy cord pretty tight on the bird's legs and have had no problems with injuries. I used a thinner cord and cause some abrasion type injuries to the bird's legs. Same thing if the cord was not snugged up tight.

RayG

[Escopeton]

Hey John,

I made these hobbles and use a pigeon pole. The pole is an old saltwater spin rod that I attached a zebco 202 reel on it. I tie the mono to the hobbles, the bird to the hobbles and leave the bail open on the reel. You can plant the bird or left it fly and plant itself.

[clink83]

I think the most important part is to not leave scent on the birds, because if your dog learns to find birds by tracking human scent in a test it's not a good thing. For hunting it's not as big of a deal, but for tests/trials its bad. That is why there are alot of trainers who don't like dizzying birds or launchers and prefer call back birds or carding them.

[DonF]

I've been hearing about the human scent thing for years, I don't buy it. There is a period of time when you turn over to wild birds and they won't even skip a beat. In the AKC and AF trials I've been to, birds are always planted without gloves on. Kind of like the remote trap, how do you keep human scent off them? Doesn't matter. When you turn the dog over to birds out of the trap, the dog's will barely notice and then to wild birds and that's it. I can plant birds with my dogs watching and if they do go right to them, they point them. Isn't that the idea?

[clink83]

I've been hearing about the human scent thing for years, I don't buy it. There is a period of time when you turn over to wild birds and they won't even skip a beat. In the AKC and AF trials I've been to, birds are always planted without gloves on. Kind of like the remote trap, how do you keep human scent off them? Doesn't matter. When you turn the dog over to birds out of the trap, the dog's will barely notice and then to wild birds and that's it. I can plant birds with my dogs watching and if they do go right to them, they point them. Isn't that the idea?

Then why are there specific rules that if dogs are ground trailing scent to find birds they should be penalized? Ive seen threads on here where people have dogs that will take out planted birds, or pee on them, and point wild birds. I don't think that's a coincidence.
see http://steadywithstyle.com/intelligent-dogs/

[shags]

Ground scenting like that means the dog is snuffling along with his nose on the ground instead of going with his head up using the wind. In that case, he's following the planter's track rather than winding birds.

Dogs seem to be OK with human scent on birds. It's not ideal, but how else are they going to be put out if not handled? Gloves, stinky bird bags, ATV fuel, horse sweat....they all leave their trace.

[clink83]

I use carded pigeons and fly them out so there are no tracks to the bird, and minimal scent. Birds released from a recall pen and never touched are the best choice, if you can do it. Chasimg them down takes more time than training though.