My pup makes dogs attack her

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sean english
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My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:21 pm

My springer is about five months old. Very happy and friendly dog. Sees a dog and goes to them and wants to play with them. She is very submissive:Rolls on her back and submits easily.
There has been several instances that she went to play with other dogs and they attacked her. One time at a dog park by a male german shepherd mix. My pup is female and when i picked her up from the breeder, all the other pups were already gone and both she and her mom, showed the same kind of submissive (rolling on their back) behavior. She is totally fine in every other way and our training is going just fine. She is at the point where she does blind retrieve with my hand signals, has flushed wild pheasants and mallards too.
I have read some Cesar Mellan and believe his doctrines. He says in the packs, in the wild, weak energy does not survive. Its inviting and gets others to attack her/him. That is what I see with my dog. My wife says she does not know how to socialize and that I need to take her to puppy classes so she can learn from puppies. I am guessing she is right. She doesnt know how to play, how to approach. That same day when she was attacked by the shepherd puppy, our other little chiwawa (or however you spell it) mix was there too but she didnt attract any attention or animosity towards herself. Chelsea (my pup) is a magnet for that.
What do you know? What should I do? This afternoon on our walk she was again attacked by two welsh corgies (the short with big head. Queen has them) And they were going for the jugular. :evil: :twisted:

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:46 pm

Think I would put the book away and spend the extra time taking your pup to more places around dogs. The only thing she does that may get her in trouble is getting into another dogs space to quicky but her actions are submissive and that doesn't start fight though it may let some other pup that is rather submissive have confidence that it can whip your pup. Sounds like two submissive dogs and not aggression to me. And probably not your pups fault but .........................

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:54 pm

Maybe I can video tape her when she meets another dog and put it here.
Here is a video of her at work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-sX0gKVvnw

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by volraider » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:57 pm

in my experience submissive dogs cause more dog fights than alpha dogs. Ezzy is right pu the books down and socialize your dog. The more places you take her the better she will be.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:55 am

My GSP was very submissive and did get picked on a lot - we stopped going to dog parks for that reason. She got whipped up by a golden of all dogs! Anyway - I'd agree with the posters above - with the caveat that you need to get her around dogs that aren't trying to beat her up and just want to play. She's a baby still and needs to have positive dog interactions so she can learn that!
Last edited by RoostersMom on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by Winchey » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:39 am

I think it will pass as she gets older. All my dogs see a ton of other dogs and all of them got beat up as pups. Dogs don't mess with the older 2 anymore. The setter still gets beat up by Boston terriers, but it is becoming less frequent lol. I have noticed a lot of young dogs get beat up by older ones. They are just stupid and lack social skills and the older dogs will keep them in line. It usually looks worse than it is.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by ACooper » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:08 am

She needs to be around other dogs in a controlled situation, forget the dog parks.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by onuhunter02 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:42 am

I not know the answer on how to fix your issue but I would have to also say stop going to the dog parks. I hate dog parks because it is not controlled and you have no idea how up to date the people at the parks are with their dogs and shots. At the same time I am in a fortunate situation where I have other dogs so my pup can get socialized like that. When she starts to feel too confident with the dogs at the house I take her with me to friends houses who have dogs and seems she gets pretty use to other dogs.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by aulrich » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:14 am

I don't mind dog parks, between the two I go to one is huge 63 acres and the other while it has no fenced it has some pheasants and partridge and in general better dogs. what I found was the dog park taught him which dogs to ignore. At the beginning of winter mine had a few negative encounters nothing bad, but for a while he was a bit freaked. but has since figured out how to say hello, invite to play, and just relax while he is getting sniffed.

We have a love hate relationship with huskies if there is a dog that will roll in and go after(Not really an attack but a dominance thing) Dash it will be a husky, on the flip side the best running buddies he has had have been huskies, most dogs don't have the drive to run all that much.

I try to stay away from the dog park at peak hours especially with a young dog, Sunday afternoon on a nice day and there is sure to be a jerk in the place.

Crappy weather, in general only the dedicated are out in crappy weather so the quality of dog goes up.

Schedule, I found most folks have set times during the week when they are walking keep an eye out for any regulars with good dogs especially folks with just one dog, they(the dog) are usually itching for 4 legged company.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by jeffkrop » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:24 pm

My brittany is the same way. Cost us $300 at the dog park. Another dog just nipped at him. If you ever watch the dog whisperer this was a worry of his when he brought other dogs into his pack, I take my dog on a daily walk by the dog park, we go up to the fence to say hi to the other dogs. While we are near the other dogs I'm watching my dog's tail hopping to see it go straight for little up i the air, my brits tale is still folded under ad his rear ed is ear the ground. If you do going to the dog park even if you're there and your dog submits there is a chance it could be but. I know in Minnesota you take the risk when entering the dog park.

My next move is a puppy training class at the pets Mart nearby. It'll cost me 100 bucks in this kind of wimpy but it's controlled with other puppies.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:34 pm

Ok ill say it Ceaser Milan is a Great! Buy his book and watch your t.v. Can I say that on this site..... Oh I just Did.
Last edited by 4dabirds on Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:36 pm

jeffkrop wrote:My brittany is the same way. Cost us $300 at the dog park. Another dog just nipped at him. If you ever watch the dog whisperer this was a worry of his when he brought other dogs into his pack, I take my dog on a daily walk by the dog park, we go up to the fence to say hi to the other dogs. While we are near the other dogs I'm watching my dog's tail hopping to see it go straight for little up i the air, my brits tale is still folded under ad his rear ed is ear the ground. If you do going to the dog park even if you're there and your dog submits there is a chance it could be but. I know in Minnesota you take the risk when entering the dog park.

My next move is a puppy training class at the pets Mart nearby. It'll cost me 100 bucks in this kind of wimpy but it's controlled with other puppies.
I think I am going to do the same. I dont like dog parks and I dont really go there but this scenario takes place even on our daily walks. I think some controlled socializing with puppies will do.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:44 pm

4dabirds wrote:Ok ill say it Ceaser Milan is a moron! Burn his book and run away from your t.v. Can I say that on this site..... Oh I just Did.
By bringing him up, I was expecting someone (or someoneS) to say something like that. Most of the hunters (and probably most of general public) think that way since they know better. They beat up the dog if he doesnt listen and that is the end of it. But again, those same people, are the kind who have dogs who dont listen to them, dont respect them, run away from them, jump on them, attack other dogs or people, in the field the owner is calling the dog and he does not following his commands, etc.
Yap, you know so much about dogs and CM does not. You got to be a very successful dog trainer. Why dont you start your own dog show? An illigal alien came here and became millionaire off of it. I am sure you can do better than that. :D

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by clink83 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:51 pm

sean english wrote:
4dabirds wrote:Ok ill say it Ceaser Milan is a moron! Burn his book and run away from your t.v. Can I say that on this site..... Oh I just Did.
By bringing him up, I was expecting someone (or someoneS) to say something like that. Most of the hunters (and probably most of general public) think that way since they know better. They beat up the dog if he doesnt listen and that is the end of it. But again, those same people, are the kind who have dogs who dont listen to them, dont respect them, run away from them, jump on them, attack other dogs or people, in the field the owner is calling the dog and he does not following his commands, etc.
Yap, you know so much about dogs and CM does not. You got to be a very successful dog trainer. Why dont you start your own dog show? An illigal alien came here and became millionaire off of it. I am sure you can do better than that. :D
There are a lot of professional training groups that oppose him. His methods work for him, but he is also willing to be bit, and has been bit. How many people are willing to get bit that follow his show without knowing the full consequence of their actions?

Bottom line, dogs are not wolves, and wolves don't live in a dominanat/submissive pack structure like lots of people think. There are scientists who study that stuff, if you want to be informed you should research it. George Hickox wrote a very good article about this in shooting sportsman, very well worth your time.

The people who are saying to find someone with a nice dog for him to play with, and go from there are spot on. Like people, some dogs are assholes, and some are nice. If you only expose your dog to positive experinces, he is going to be confident and bold within reason.

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My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:01 pm

I'll definitely look him up. I like to see what others have to say. But his methods and ways bring result. His shows are not prefabricated. He does amazing things right in front of the camera which can not be refuted. And his Pack leader mentality I totally agree with for dogs or for people.
Thanks for posting.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:08 pm

sean english wrote:I'll definitely look him up. I like to see what others have to say. But his methods and ways bring result. His shows are not prefabricated. He does amazing things right in front of the camera which can not be refuted. And his Pack leader mentality I totally agree with for dogs or for people.
Thanks for posting.
Believe nothing you see on TV or read on the Internet till you have verified it.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:22 pm

Sean I think you misread me, look again. You see even the internet can be edited just like a t.v. show!!! :D

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by 4dabirds » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:23 pm

Actually its magic ! :D

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Sharon
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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by Sharon » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:29 pm

I don't think dog parks are a natural/wise place to introduce a pup to dogs. Many dogs there haven't learned how to greet another dog. I went once and a big dog jumped on my pup's back. Never again.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by buckeyebowman » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:06 pm

Winchey wrote:I think it will pass as she gets older. All my dogs see a ton of other dogs and all of them got beat up as pups. Dogs don't mess with the older 2 anymore. The setter still gets beat up by Boston terriers, but it is becoming less frequent lol. I have noticed a lot of young dogs get beat up by older ones. They are just stupid and lack social skills and the older dogs will keep them in line. It usually looks worse than it is.
I agree with this. Too many people raise dogs like they raise their kids, "comfort must be maintained, expectations must be met, conflict must be avoided." That's nice in theory, but it's not the real world. I took my pup over to my buddy's house, where he had a rather large German Shepherd female, a mid-size mutt of indeterminate origin, and a Beagle. My pup got "beat up" something fierce the first few times we were there. It's something to see your pup's head in the jaws of a German Shepherd, who is squeezing just hard enough to try to get a rise out of the dog being squeezed! I'll admit it. I was nervous. But, as my friend said, his dog was a real "bitch", who would do anything to get a rise out of another dog just so they could play. After a few sessions, my pup was just fine!

However, this is a reason to avoid dog parks. You don't know the people there, and you don't know their dogs. Better if you could find a few folks who would let you run your dog with theirs, and see where the chips fall.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by clink83 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:32 pm

sean english wrote:I'll definitely look him up. I like to see what others have to say. But his methods and ways bring result. His shows are not prefabricated. He does amazing things right in front of the camera which can not be refuted. And his Pack leader mentality I totally agree with for dogs or for people.
Thanks for posting.
Well, the scientist who came up the whole "alpha/dominance" ideas did it based on wolves in captivity. Funny thing is, he continued to study wolves in the wild, and found out things were alot different there.
http://www.livescience.com/5846-critics ... thods.html
Dogs are quite different than wolves, if you do a little research you will find you can't really train wolves, where dogs you can. There has been rapid coevolution between dogs and people..

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:50 am

sean english wrote:I'll definitely look him up. I like to see what others have to say. But his methods and ways bring result. His shows are not prefabricated. He does amazing things right in front of the camera which can not be refuted. And his Pack leader mentality I totally agree with for dogs or for people.
Thanks for posting.
What you don't see on the show is the required two hour exercise session the dogs get before CM shows up. Amazing how well behaved those tired dog are all of a sudden.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by Winchey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:17 am

DogNewbie wrote:
sean english wrote:I'll definitely look him up. I like to see what others have to say. But his methods and ways bring result. His shows are not prefabricated. He does amazing things right in front of the camera which can not be refuted. And his Pack leader mentality I totally agree with for dogs or for people.
Thanks for posting.
What you don't see on the show is the required two hour exercise session the dogs get before CM shows up. Amazing how well behaved those tired dog are all of a sudden.

I have watched a lot of the episodes, I will watch pretty much anything on TV with dogs in it. Pretty well every episode it is some clueless person, Caesar asks what the problem is, they say he is crazy and doesn't listen. Every time this is because the dog is not exercised and they let the dog do whatever it wants. Caesar makes them exercise the dog and follow through on enforcing, making the dog do what they want and voila. Mind blowing lol.

Any other problem his solution is to flood the dog.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by 1vizsla » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Follow your wife's advice. Get her into classes and lots of them. I learned with our first dog and did much better with the second.

Carla

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:14 am

Cautiously went to the dogpark yesterday after having her run around and chasing some pheasants and rabbits. The good thing about that park is that it has two sections, larger dogs and small ones.
All the dogs were friendly and well mannered. She was not attacked at all. It was obvious that she had no clue as to how to play with other dogs. Just like a new kid in a new school. We spent a good amount of time there. Lots of improvement. Made some contacts and will be going there again everyday. Others said that their young dogs went through the same behavior as well.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:05 pm

It is rare that a dog will play with a dog they haven't seen before. That has nothing to do with knowing how. I don't think there is a dog alive that doesn't know how but there are some that don't want to for a multitude of reasons.

Ezzy
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by sean english » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:07 pm

We take every opportunity to socialize her. About 4 times a week to Dog park. Small dogs only. I watch her like a hawk and if i see a dog is going to attack her, I intervene. Its been working out fine. She is doing much better but still looks like a lost soul over there:goes from one dog to another.
Doing fine in other ways: Just outside of the dog park, there is lots of grass and full of pheasants. I have her flush a couple at least everytime we are there. I got her a couple of quail last weekend and shot cap gun over her. Didnt blink. (Funny thing is the little quail was charging her: Strutting her wings like a turkey)
I take her for a run to the river then toss something in the water for her to retrieve. We have done that 3 times and now she actually swims (feet off ground) to get it. Cold though. She shivers after that so I keep it short. This we do on the weekend mornings then she warms up in the sun.
She getting bold: has chased jack rabbits, turkeys, honkers.
I am going to shoot blanks over her every week. Plant to step up to pigeons soon and then shotgun. We see how that goes.
Oh, ya Cesar Millan: I think he has done more than any other dog trainer for the dogs and dog trainers of the world. What he says is not magic its simple common sense. I really like to see the interaction of some of those people who think he is all BS, with their dogs. I dont want to spend any more time on this thread. Got things to do. If you have a trainer/teacher that works for you, stay with it. I totally believe in what he says and it has been working for me. As one once said" Chew the meat and spit out the bones".

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:15 pm

Thanks for the Cesar tribute. Not sure what anyone did to prompt that but am sure Cesar will appreciate it when he takes his dogs out hunting next time. I always thought he was just one of many trainers that have been successful training dogs. Big difference is he doesn't work training hunting dogs. But glad you have found something that works for you. Ask Cesar how he handles his dogs in the field?

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by Winchey » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:59 am

I have met a lot of people like that Ezzy. When I worked at a pet supply store that offered training as well we would always have people coming in with problems. We would provide advice and for the Caesar people if it didn't align with Caesars way they would tell us we are wrong. Who has the problem dog? We woulf have people walk out of our training classes because they read Caesars book and our class wad crap. Didn't matter that their dogs sucked lol.

It really is cult like lol

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Re: My pup makes dogs attack her

Post by DogNewbie » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:39 am

sean english wrote:We take every opportunity to socialize her. About 4 times a week to Dog park. Small dogs only. I watch her like a hawk and if i see a dog is going to attack her, I intervene. Its been working out fine. She is doing much better but still looks like a lost soul over there:goes from one dog to another.
Doing fine in other ways: Just outside of the dog park, there is lots of grass and full of pheasants. I have her flush a couple at least everytime we are there. I got her a couple of quail last weekend and shot cap gun over her. Didnt blink. (Funny thing is the little quail was charging her: Strutting her wings like a turkey)
I take her for a run to the river then toss something in the water for her to retrieve. We have done that 3 times and now she actually swims (feet off ground) to get it. Cold though. She shivers after that so I keep it short. This we do on the weekend mornings then she warms up in the sun.
She getting bold: has chased jack rabbits, turkeys, honkers.
I am going to shoot blanks over her every week. Plant to step up to pigeons soon and then shotgun. We see how that goes.
Oh, ya Cesar Millan: I think he has done more than any other dog trainer for the dogs and dog trainers of the world. What he says is not magic its simple common sense. I really like to see the interaction of some of those people who think he is all BS, with their dogs. I dont want to spend any more time on this thread. Got things to do. If you have a trainer/teacher that works for you, stay with it. I totally believe in what he says and it has been working for me. As one once said" Chew the meat and spit out the bones".
Bingo. Common sense. Be dominate and make sure the dog gets exercise. That's all most dog owners will ever need, but it will only get you a nice house pet. Won't do anything in the field. I think people that roll their eyes at Cesar aren't really rolling their eyes at Cesar. They're rolling their eyes at the fact that there are people out there that are actually in need of a person to explain to them that a dog is a dog and should be treated like a dog.

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