Leasons Learned......

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Hoosierdaddy
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Leasons Learned......

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:06 pm

I was out running my pups last weekend,just a run out in a public hunting ground near my house.I had been walking with the pups for over an hour and was headed back towards the car.Both dogs were wearing their e-collars as i was wanting them to get used to wearing them.We were getting close to the area where i would normally slap their leashes on,when my male flushed a flock of Geese out of a small pond.The chase was on,but i wasnt worried as the Geese were climbing fast and were soon out of sight.I whistled for the dogs and my female came right to me and i put her leash on.I whistled again,nothing.The next time i saw my male he was 100yds away in the parking lot.I whistled he looked at me and jogged off in the opposite direction.Complete and total defiance of a command that he knows.The dog is now headed right for the entrance road.I start after him,whistling and calling,Nothing he is still headed in the opposite direction.He gets to the road gets on the bridge and crosses to the other side of a river,goes down and embankment and disappears.Now i am worried and more so madder than a hornet.I finally caught up with him after about another 1/4 mile.I snathched on to him slapped his leash on and never said a word.

I knew that this whole episode was my fault-1 .The pups had their collars on and the transmitter was hanging in the family room.2 .I had seen my male blowing me off just a little bit for a couple weeks(Coming to me when he felt compelled)3. Me trusting 6 month old pups to act right all the time.

I am new to the e-collar and have been worried about about screwing the dogs up.However in this instance i probably could have stopped the pup before he ever got near the road. So i guess its back to the checkord,with e-collar overlay(i have Perfect Start).
"a man has got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood

Chicago Blackhawks Six Time Stanley Cup Champions

1934 1938 1961 2010 2013 2015

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Sharon
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:16 pm

We all have learned lessons the hard way. Yours was not as serious as they can be. Mine cost me a lost dog , never to be seen again. I remind myself often not to take any shortcuts when it comes to a dog's safety.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:10 pm

I was always aprehensive of using the Ecollar for the come command but after just a day with Rick Smith, I became a believer. Had a little female GSP would do the same thing. I had done her CC cord work, whistle commands etc. but she was still one that knew she could get away with stuff away. So she tested me many times. I am to fat and slow to run em down anymore.

Arlette can tell you Rick Smiths way. I can but will have to be another ti,e.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Hoosierdaddy
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:01 pm

Well we have an update on todays festivities.I have worked both pups on short sessions with the e-collar for the last 4 days.Just a nick on the first setting while giving them a light tug on the CC.They dont like it much.But the results were good.

Today i took them out for another romp down by the river.I got about a mile out and we ran into another flock of Geese.As soon as my male heard the honking there he goes PARTY TIME!!!! Female in hot pursuit.I could see them clearly and there was no danger,up go the Geese this time about 50 of them flying all over the place.I waited about a minute to let them have a little fun.I blew my whistle one time and my female started right back.My male just like before blew me off.Nicked him with collar on 1,nothing.Clicked to 2 whistled and hit the button at the same time,he felt that but still did not turn my way.By now the Geese are long gone and he is just running around like he is possesed.Female is back with me and i put her leash on.My male is still running around like an idiot.Cranked the collar up to three,blew my whistle and hit him with about 2 seconds of continuous stim.That got his attention,and here he comes at full speed with his tongue hanging out from all the running.

It was a good day.I learned that the e-collar is a good tool.I know i dont have to use but small doses of stim on my dogs most of the time.I know at least for now my female is smarter than my male.My dogs are learning that come means come no matter where we are.
"a man has got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood

Chicago Blackhawks Six Time Stanley Cup Champions

1934 1938 1961 2010 2013 2015

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:55 am

Well that worked Okay.
When Rick Smith had me doing the knick and increasing the level with non compliance, he told me not to say or command anything. Reason being give a command once. The dog will learn that nothing he can't handle will happen till the third or fourth command till them "stay at the party".

In fact If I remember correctly, we did not use any command even with the first knick. In fact our first try at this was a field and farm pond with geese in the field. But I had done CC work with no ecollar for a few weeks prior and had done the CC with voice command and whistle command.

Also, When we wanted the dog to come to us, we stood stil during the knicks. Then when we wanted the dog to bend, "come around" we would change direction when the dog could see me and give a knick with no command. And then do it again a bunch of yards later.

But any way, good start, decent result.

Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Hoosierdaddy
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:03 am

Well i truly understand the need for the dog to comply to a command on the first try.The part i dont understand is nicking the dog with no command.What i have been doing on the CC has been a two phase HERE command.As here can mean change direction with me(standing and i turn my back to the dogs and go the opposite way,) or here, down on one knee means come directly to me.

I have noticed just how smart these mutts are.When off lead they learned real quick that they could come to me and then stay just out of reach,not wanting the restriction of having their leash put back on.

Training sessions in the backyard can be flawless,but get them out in the feild with all the new sights, smells, and wildlife,things can go wrong in a hurry.
"a man has got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood

Chicago Blackhawks Six Time Stanley Cup Champions

1934 1938 1961 2010 2013 2015

benelli
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by benelli » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:58 am

The e-collar has made a HUGE difference for us with our dog. Our GSP spends most of his time in the role of "family pet" (we're slowly working on hunting training, but access to birds is difficult for us right now), and initially I thought e-collars were just expensive fancy extras only professionals needed/could use. But finally we got one when Scout wasn't coming when called (about 7 months old). He's now 10-11 months old, and not only does he turn on a dime to come to us when called (and doesn't always require the use of the collar at all), but as of a couple days ago I can walk him at heel without a leash, and he's starting to learn "whoa" also. The e-collar has made his world so much bigger than it would have been otherwise; since I know I can call him back reliably in an instant, I can take him out to the front yard for a quick game of fetch, or let him run loose in the neighborhood park, and he can have fun while staying safe and close by. Totally worth every penny we spent on it.

Just be careful and make sure your dog is understanding the commands and is intentionally blowing you off before you start increasing intensity. When we were teaching the dog the recall command (and learning how to use the e-collar ourselves), there was a strong temptation to fry the dog for noncompliance, when in reality he simply didn't understand what was going on, and I think that's one way people manage to ruin dogs quickly.

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Ruffshooter
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:28 pm

Hoosierdaddy wrote:Well i truly understand the need for the dog to comply to a command on the first try.The part i dont understand is nicking the dog with no command.
Yeah, I did not understand it either but it worked. And yes they do learn when they can and can not comply. But leave the ecollar on the dog all the time. Then as time moves on you randomly remove it but do not give a command you can not enforce in some real manner.

As far as the dog leash or collar, make it a good thing, either treat or praise or the fact they get to go to the field or birds.
Sounds like you are on track. Keep it simple and consistent and repetitive.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Qwernt
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Qwernt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:34 pm

We have a nice 30-40 acre off leash park we go to everyday. The only major problem is no gateso at the parking lot. After going down every day for a year, one day my britt realized that if she ran across the parking lot, she could get to the soccer fields on the other side (where there was serious room for her to run without being bothered by dogs).
The next day I knew she would do it again so she had her collar on. When she busted through the parking lot, I gave her a minor correction nic. She ignored me. In my mind, I wanted her to understand that she was never allowed in the parking lot without me, not just when I gave her a command. Once she was running in the soccer fields, I walked over, gave the come command and when she didn't listen gave her a nic. This time she came.
Day three, I know she is going to run through that lot again, so this time I crank up the number a couple of clicks. She busts through it again. I go over and collect her, this time she comes without needing the nic - once I am in the parking lot.
Day four, I crank the number way up, and don't just nic, but give her a good squeeze. After a big yelp and some obvious unhappiness she went running back into the correct location right to some ladies. They were so concerned that she had hurt herself. My comment was "nope, we were just having a little discussion". I suspect they think I abuse my poor dog, but better a good zap than a tire over the head. And she clearly knew what was allowed and what was not before I hit her hard.
In the last 18 months, her parking lot behavior is MUCH better. Runs up to the gate, stops and finds me to see if she is allowed. "Leave It" or "No" and she turns back around and "hunts" the park some more.
People at the dog park tend to frown on e-collars, but it is a very valuable tool when used properly. I have turned 3 different people on to using them for problems and ALL have been happy with the results. At least once a week I run into people who think e-collars are a scourage of satan, so I generally have to point out that you can't blame a tool if it is used improperly...

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Hoosierdaddy
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Re: Leasons Learned......

Post by Hoosierdaddy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:08 pm

Yes many people think i am evil for using the dreaded"shock collar" on my dogs.These are Britts #3 and #4 for me and i am in my mid 50's.I would call myself old school.I never thought i would ever use an e-collar.But i have a freind who uses one and that convinced me this is a good thing ,not bad.If for no other reason than the saftey of my dogs.Britts are wound tight,like all bird dogs,but i forgot what having high energy dogs in my house was like.It has been 11 years since my last puppy.But it has been a blessing,lots of walking everyday if possible.The thought of one of these pups having a losing battle with a car is unimaginable.

My wife thought i was a sadist when i suggested we get an e-collar.I finally got her to let me nick her with It.She now knows i have not hooked 440 volts to our dogs!Thanks for all the positive disscussion and stories.I know now i made the right choice
"a man has got to know his limitations" Clint Eastwood

Chicago Blackhawks Six Time Stanley Cup Champions

1934 1938 1961 2010 2013 2015

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