Gun Dog Forum

I have 2 GSP pups that I am training for Natural Ability in Navhda. My question is do you have to use a rubber or canvas bumper in the water retrieve? Both pups will retrieve a tennis ball and a quail good. I am wondering if you can use other things and what type of things you can use for the retrieve. I was thinking about getting a real bird bumper from Scott linden's tv show or even a Doken's dead fowl trainer to start working them on if these items are ok to use in the test.
Or does anybody have any other good ideas on what to use ?

I don't have a answer to your question but would love to see some pics of the pup out of my Dougie.That litter is sure a good one. Fred has sent a bunch of pics from the other pups and all i can say is WOW. Tony

I am going to try and set out some birds this weekend and I will try and get some better pics. of him. He is a fireball and I can't wait till hunting season comes back around. Congrats on finishing Dougie title Fred sent me a pic. Of him last week and he looks awesome. Hows your pup doing out of that litter? I would like to see some pics. Of her sometime.

Plastic bumpers is what is used. Just the standard run of the mill bumper. I have never seen a real bird bumper used.

I would highly suggest that you stop using real birds and use the bumpers until after the test.

I am only using real birds when I set they out to work on there pointing and field work. When I throw out a rubber bumper they just run over to it and sniff and go on ther way but they will retrieve a tennis ball every time for me. Just don't know why they won't do the bumper for me.

I don't think they actually have to retrieve it, right? But u want to use something that they will want to go in the water after.

I personally would not be using tennis balls.

Any ideas on how to get them interested in a bumper?

For the NA test the dog does not have to retrieve the bumber they basically want to see ithe dog enter.the.water and swim and then re enter with no hesitation. They use regular plastic bumbers.. If the.dog will not enter.the water the judge will throw a bird in the water.. However if a bird is used to get the dog in the water they cannot get prize 1

Westcreek wrote:Any ideas on how to get them interested in a bumper?

Just brainstorming here, but I wonder if you laid off the tennis ball and birds and only gave them the opportunity with a bumper for a while it might help.

Training a dog should have an "end goal" in mind. Think about what you want the dog to do in the end and train for that goal. Dogs like to chase balls because they are "running" and it sparks there're prey drive. Build on that drive using game for awhile and if need be have them forced for retrieve. Later on the tennis balls can become a game again but during training the dog needs to learn that the fun is its job and youre satisfaction. JMO

The NA test is not really something that is meant to be trained for. Just as in in implies, it is only to test their natural abilities. To me anyway, training is taking something away from what is trying to be evaluated. I would introduce them to birds and expose them to water and on the day of the test, have fun and see what happens. Everybody wants their pup to do well but it really is not that big of a deal.

Charlie

Some clubs use both rubber and canvas.

Tammy, do you and Howie have any tricks or methods to get the pups really interested in the bumpers?

Carolina Gundogs wrote:Tammy, do you and Howie have any tricks or methods to get the pups really interested in the bumpers?

Natural retrieve !!! Jealously works great. Watching another dog retrieve.

Westcreek wrote:Any ideas on how to get them interested in a bumper?

Yes, stop throwing anything BUT a bumper. Gett hem so wound up by the bumper that nothing else matters. Then put it away.

Just take the tennis ball to the test. When its ur turn ask the judge if you can throw it. I bet he says yes. It has nothing to do with the bumber or retrieve just the fact if the dog will swim twice on his own without hesition.

Did not read all the other posts.
Many clubs will have a bunch of different types and sizes of bumpers and a dead quail ready just in case.
We have plastic, canvas and I think a dokens quail.
They do not have to retrieve to pass. Just have to swim twice. They will have you throw the bumper about 10 yards. Make sure pup is ready, get him or her fired up, toss the bumper while looking. (seems obvious, but many will do it just as pup spins a circle or turns away.)

As far as I know you have to use the club supplied bumpers at the water. I have seen people try to use their own and it was not allowed. As said before put the tennis balls up & only use bumpers. I have see people tape pheasant tail feathers to them to get the dog excited about them and slowly take them off till the dog will go after it without feathers. Of course you CAN NOT use feathers at the test

I think you can use a dead bird but you have to ask first.

And that's what I would do if the pupsike retrieving dead birds.

Thanks for all the ideas. I am only going to use a bumper for now on and going to try putting them on a chain gang and see if I can't get them all fired up by playing fetch with my older Gsp.

Hey Chad, i will try to send you some pics of Annie next time we go out. Hope to see pics soon.That pic Fred sent you was on a wild quail hunt, birds were feeding in a bean field. Good luck with the pup, Tony

You are instantly dinged for using game at the water. You lose half your water score (10 points off of 112) and a Prize 3 is the best you can do thereafter. If you have to, you have to, as a last resort.

http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

Dogs requiring game as an enticement to swim will be moved to the end of the
line and called back after all other dogs are tested. If game must be used to entice
the dog, the game must be dead. When dead game is used, the maximum attainable
score will be a “2.”

I'd start by pulling everything but bumpers. I'd probably start with a canvas, and then switch over to plastic. I do believe my chapter puts out both for testing. I'd also try the competition route between dogs. If none of that works, I'd go back to the tennis ball. Throw it once or twice to get them revved and then bait and switch with a bumper throw. The water portion of the test is not about a retrieve, and the bumper is just a tool to show a willingness to swim. But if you have a pup that isn't a huge water fan, maybe the water temperature is seasonably cool like an early Spring or late Fall test, or the pups just having an off day...it is extremely helpful to have a bumper crazy pup at the bank that will leap first and think later.

Well that sums it up.

The NA tests I have run there is a bucket or pile of bumpers and you choose from them. No you can't bring your own. Using a dead quail results in a max of prize 3. So train for both plastic and canvas. Don't use a Doken setting yourself up for trouble. Been there.

Make sure they are bumper crazy on land then go to water.

Trick put quail or duct scent on canvas bumper, let them smell and toss. Have a piece of hot dog to trade when they bring bumper back.

Find a chapter that is having a mock test.

Hattrick wrote:Just take the tennis ball to the test. When its ur turn ask the judge if you can throw it. I bet he says yes. It has nothing to do with the bumber or retrieve just the fact if the dog will swim twice on his own without hesition.

I do not believe they will let you use your own "bumper" or "tennis ball". just play with bumpers.

I sometimes put a sock around the bumper to transfer at first. If that didn't work put a sock around the tennis ball for a few days. Then take the same sock off and put it around the puppy bumper. Then after a few days of that take the sock off and try without. Most of the time of the retrieve desire is there it is just a matter of getting the dog to transfer the object. Once they start, the desire will be very close to the same. I also know they make tennis ball like bumpers and have seen them at pet stores. I think they are more bowling pin shaped though.

I use Dokens with my young dogs and Canvas. Not sure either are exceptable for your test but I would be more worried about the end result than a puppy test.We have a early test every year in my area and you see a good bunch of dogs get ruined not because of running the test but all the foks trying to train their young dog in way to cold of water weeks before.

The dead quail is usually used as a last resort to get the pup in the water.

Get away from using real birds or bird scent on bumpers for water work. Retrieving is not part of the natural ability criteria. They basically just want to see if the dog has the ambition to work. Attempt to develop drive for the bumpers! Make things fun how ever you can.