How to control a dogs range??

[dreamrr]

My GSP is starting to range a little too far for me and he's not good enough to hold point for a long period of time. How can I control his range until his hold gets stronger? He also loves to go into the deep cover, which he does me no good in. Even if he finds and points a bird, i could never get to him. How can I keep him away from deep cover unless I tell him to enter?

[bb560m]

My GSP is starting to range a little too far for me and he's not good enough to hold point for a long period of time. How can I control his range until his hold gets stronger? He also loves to go into the deep cover, which he does me no good in. Even if he finds and points a bird, i could never get to him. How can I keep him away from deep cover unless I tell him to enter?

You control it with genetics.

[birddog1968]

take the dog out of a hunting situation until you get it holding birds reliably....Train

As far as digging in, if thats where the birds are i see no problem. Dogs doing its job.


More info would be helpful.

[dreamrr]

More info.... Hmm...

I hunt in Nevada, which consists of lots is hard cover. I'm talking hard, hard cover that birds simply do not come out of on e they are in it. Even if a dog enters an points a bird, the bird is not moving and humans cannot get in there to flush it. Even if you get a shot off in this stuff, good luck finding it or getting to it... Even your dog.

That being said, I'd rather not waste my time yelling for my dog to get out of it. I'd rather walk on past it to find other birds accessible areas.

And yes, the dog is doing his job. He smells birds, and wants to point them. But that's the problem. how do I get him to bypass those spots?

[dreamrr]

Also, you say take him out of hunting situations until he holds point better. I thought it is good to get the dog in as many hunting situations as possible... Isn't that the best training? He has the foundation for training. He trained for almost 2 months with a professional. My plan now is to hunt him as much as possible and let him... And me learn from our mistakes.

Is that the wrong mindset?

[jimbo&rooster]

You need to train for a reliable recall. If he ranges to far call him back in. If he dives into the thick stuff you need to be able to call him out of it. Collar condition to "hear". As far as him holding his birds there is a lot of info on that here on the forum.

Jim

[Sharon]

You need to train for a reliable recall. If he ranges to far call him back in. If he dives into the thick stuff you need to be able to call him out of it. Collar condition to "hear". As far as him holding his birds there is a lot of info on that here on the forum.

Jim

X2 - nothing replaces a reliable recall. Do you use an e collar as a re inforcement?

[dreamrr]

Yes, I use an e-collar. Looks like we need to do a little yard work on the recall

[mountaindogs]

In cover: This is a tough one. You can either let your dog flush on command *shudder* or get in and flush for them. Or get a flushing dog or hunt with both a pointing dog and flushing dog which takes some tough training for the pointing dog, but is achievable if you really work at it.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I would get ahold of your pro and ask for his advise.

Doug

[Winchey]

X2 on recall, reel him in so you can keep track of him and correct him when he busts birds. Once he is solid you can start letting him roll again. More steadiness work in the yard won't hurt either but if you can train on the wild ones why not.

[mask]

A couple of questions. If the dog was with a trainer for 60 days and won't stand birds reliably and won't come very well when called, what did he learn while there, or what did the training consist of. It sounds like you have a great prospect that a grouse hunter would kill for. I would get him to come when called and I would not stop him from going into cover if there are actually birds in there. If you want him to stand reliably you will have to train for that. He has been on wild birds and is not holding his point, I would work on steadiness untill you have the results you want. If you are hunting blue or scaled quail, they are not the easiest bird to train on. Best of luck and don't weaken.

[dreamrr]

A couple of questions. If the dog was with a trainer for 60 days and won't stand birds reliably and won't come very well when called, what did he learn while there, or what did the training consist of. It sounds like you have a great prospect that a grouse hunter would kill for. I would get him to come when called and I would not stop him from going into cover if there are actually birds in there. If you want him to stand reliably you will have to train for that. He has been on wild birds and is not holding his point, I would work on steadiness untill you have the results you want. If you are hunting blue or scaled quail, they are not the easiest bird to train on. Best of luck and don't weaken.

When I took him to the trainer, he knew nothing about birds or hunting. The training consisted of gun conditioning, e-collar conditioning, and an introduction to birds. The dog has done really well and I am happy with what I paid for. He does really well listening when I can see him. If we are hunting a field and he is in sight, his recall is great and he holds point for the most part (he needs to get stronger on holding point though). He hunts and retrieves and has what it takes to be a good bird dog with more training.

The only time he doesn't listen well is when he goes into the real thick stuff. If I can't see him and he can't see me, he doesn't listen well. He eventually comes when I call, but it takes him a bit. And I have also found him holding point in thick cover where I just could not get to or want to get to. He just gets really excited about birds and he knows they are in that cover, so in he goes not realizing I cannot follow him.

I've also found that when he is on birds, his listening skills are not very good. I have to turn the level to 4 on my tri-tronics e-collar to get his attention. (and I'm not correcting him when he is on point. He sometimes chases tweeties and I am trying to correct that.)
I've also found that when his

[RayGubernat]

dreamerr -

Here's my 2 cents...

First off, if you have a dog that will not hold point for as long as it takes for you to get to him...you got nuthin'. THAT is job #1. Don't even begin to worry about the other stuff because if the dog won't hold...none of the rest of it matters. What you have is a long range flusher and that ain't what you need.

Your dog needs to understand that it is his job to find the birds and that he has to stand his birds...for as long as it takes for you to get there... because flushing the bird is YOUR job, not his. That is probably going to take some time. Be patient, persistent and consistent. Do both yardwork and fieldwork to that end.

While you are working on making an honest dog out of him, you can also work on his recall and you can do bending drills to redirect the dog in the field.

As far as a dog digging in to find birds...that is an either/or situation, in my opinion.
You can train a dog to NOT dig in by nicking the dog every time it comes off and edge and goes into cover, but then you cannot expect it, or even allow it to go into cover on its own, even if there is scent there. You can't have it both ways IMO. The only way you should allow such a dog to dig in is when you are there and in the cover yourself and command the dog to come in.

I don't know what kind of cover you are talking about, so it is your call. When I was young and full of vinegar, I have waded into some pretty nasty pieces of multiflora, russian olive or greenbrier to get to a dog on point and, on occasion had to reach into my coat and get the pruning shears out and cut my way in...and back out. I prefer not to do that anymore, but if the dog is in there on point...you gotta do what you gotta do. Like I said...it is the hunter's job to flush the bird...shot or no shot.

You may not have wanted to read some of what I just wrote, but I believe in saying it plain... like it is. I hope you did not take offense, because none was meant.


RayG

[dreamrr]

Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate it all. That's why post questions; to hear all opinions

[deseeker]

Here's a trick to try to get a bird to flush without going into the heavy cover. If you have a ball cap, take it off at flap it back and for about a million miles an hour---It kind of sounds like a birds wings, fools the bird into thinking his bird friends are leaving him behind. About 1/2 the time (on pheasants) they panic and fly. If it doesn't work, wade in there and kick them out

[Neil]

I would get ahold of your pro and ask for his advise.

Doug

+1, and buy a better pair of chaps. A goog dog must go where the birds are, your job is to get to him.

[Trekmoor]

Here is a different point of view. I want my dogs to find and point birds in any kind of cover although I admit I haven't got a clue about what you would consider to be very thick and nasty cover. I train dogs that following the point they must flush even from many yards away ....if commanded to. If I cannot see the pointing dog in the cover I can still command it to go in and flush the game.
What you do following that kind of flush is up to you. If the cover is impossible for a retrieve then do not shoot the bird, it is as simple as that.
I value a dog that will, without encouragement, enter thick, nasty cover if it can scent game in there. Those birds might be the only game found all day.

Bill T.

[gotpointers]

Great advice Deseeker and Neil. Dogs finding his birds now its your job...

[birddogger]

Here's my 2 cents...

First off, if you have a dog that will not hold point for as long as it takes for you to get to him...you got nuthin'. THAT is job #1. Don't even begin to worry about the other stuff because if the dog won't hold...none of the rest of it matters. What you have is a long range flusher and that ain't what you need.

Your dog needs to understand that it is his job to find the birds and that he has to stand his birds...for as long as it takes for you to get there... because flushing the bird is YOUR job, not his. That is probably going to take some time. Be patient, persistent and consistent. Do both yardwork and fieldwork to that end.

While you are working on making an honest dog out of him, you can also work on his recall and you can do bending drills to redirect the dog in the field.

Exactly right Ray. You have to get that dog standing his birds and reliable on his recall or as Ray said, nothing else matters. As far as digging into the heavy cover, I would consider it a big problem if he was to shy away from the thick stuff if that is where the birds were. That is something that IMO, you just need to find a way of dealing with.

Charlie

[whatsnext]

How old is the dog?

[dreamrr]

He is only a pup 1 and a half

[Vision]

Go buy a good quality brass snap and 4-6 black rubber bungee's, the ones with an "S" hook on each end. Close the s hooks on one end around the snap and then cut the other end off at various lengths that will interfere with the dogs front feet. That will slow him down.

[Neil]

Go buy a good quality brass snap and 4-6 black rubber bungee's, the ones with an "S" hook on each end. Close the s hooks on one end around the snap and then cut the other end off at various lengths that will interfere with the dogs front feet. That will slow him down.

Don't ever do that.

[RayGubernat]

Go buy a good quality brass snap and 4-6 black rubber bungee's, the ones with an "S" hook on each end. Close the s hooks on one end around the snap and then cut the other end off at various lengths that will interfere with the dogs front feet. That will slow him down.

Don't ever do that.

+1 on the don't do that. Trialers I know used to hang bungees off their dogs to get them to try and slow down. It worked for a little while, breaking up their gait. All it did in the end was get the dogs to run sideways so they didn't trip over the bungees. Not a pretty sight.

Nobody I know does that anymore.

RayG

[birddogger]

Go buy a good quality brass snap and 4-6 black rubber bungee's, the ones with an "S" hook on each end. Close the s hooks on one end around the snap and then cut the other end off at various lengths that will interfere with the dogs front feet. That will slow him down.

Don't ever do that.[/quote
+2. Very bad idea!

Charlie

[SetterNut]

I would not worry about his range, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he will hold point until you walk in front and flush.
Steady him up, that is the problem not his range.

[birddogger]

I would not worry about his range, it doesn't matter. What matters is that he will hold point until you walk in front and flush.
Steady him up, that is the problem not his range.

Exactly.

Charlie