Should I slow down?
Should I slow down?
I feel like I hit the lottery, My lab is only 3 months now and is exceeding all my expectations. Her commands are flawless thus far. She has been doing so well I don't no what to do next, we are at the point where she will consistently and I mean every time stage in either my up command " climbing tree stand base"about 18" off the ground or BOX crawl into a field blind and stay steady as can be. She won't even flinch at a clip wing running around until she gets her GO command. Her directions are great she will bypass decoys and a live bird to retrieve a dead one when asked, she grabs the duck and returns without command although I say it anyways and jump rite back on her platform before dropping the bird. So this is my first hunting dog and I'm not sure what else she needs to learn I'm going going to teach her to break off a retrieve in case a cripple heads towards a road ect but other than doing what were doing what am I missing? Most guys I know keep telling me I'm going to fast, going to ruin the dog and i dint get hiw i could this pup seems to love learning and listening I only treat trained for 3 days now were strictly positive reinforcement. I don't have to yell scold anything. So am I doing something wrong
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Gooseman07
- Rank: Master Hunter
- Posts: 200
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:38 pm
- Location: Middletown, DE
Should I slow down?
Has the dog been shot around? I've had 'hunting dogs' that didn't get shot around and were 2,3 years old and were scared to death the first time they heard it. My current dog I trained from the start and introduced the gun with birds and now he can't contain himself.
Retrievertraining.net has a ton of lab people on the forum and a ton of good information. You haven't pushed the dog into a learning situation where they messed up or not wanted to do what you asked.
Good start though training.
Retrievertraining.net has a ton of lab people on the forum and a ton of good information. You haven't pushed the dog into a learning situation where they messed up or not wanted to do what you asked.
Good start though training.
Re: Should I slow down?
Haven't pushed at all, it seems like she just lives to work and yes she has been around gunfire dose not bother her at all
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bumper52
- Rank: Junior Hunter
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: Port Byron, Illinois
Re: Should I slow down?
No one should be saying you are going too fast or too slow......all pups develop at a different rate (both physically and mentally) So, you really need to be the soul judge of where to go with your pup. I will say this from experience, though. You need to get with a proven program (such as Smartwork). A program will provide the foundation and necessary steps for you and your pup to maximize potential. That would be my number one suggestion: to get with a program. Secondly, even though your pup is more than exceeding your expectations, PLEASE, PLEASE give her the gift of puppyhood; let her be a puppy. This will pay off big dividends down the road. Good luck and continue to have fun.
Re: Should I slow down?
Okay, you’re talking about several skills together here, and not explaining how she got these skills at this tender age. One that jumps out at me is steadiness. It’s far too soon to require steadiness. She should be gradually steadier, but still not truly staunch at 3 months old. Are you following any program for development?Flybuster wrote:I feel like I hit the lottery, My lab is only 3 months now and is exceeding all my expectations. Her commands are flawless thus far. She has been doing so well I don't no what to do next, we are at the point where she will consistently and I mean every time stage in either my up command " climbing tree stand base “about 18" off the ground or BOX crawl into a field blind and stay steady as can be. She won't even flinch at a clip wing running around until she gets her GO command.
There is a very good chance of this working against this young pup. That is an awful lot to ask of a pup so young. The risk is killing retrieve desire by harnessing it so soon. That is diversion mark training, and it belongs many months down the road.Flybuster wrote:Her directions are great she will bypass decoys and a live bird to retrieve a dead one when asked, she grabs the duck and returns without command although I say it anyways and jump rite back on her platform before dropping the bird.
Please don’t start that right now! This sounds like a fine, biddable pup. All this control and denial of instinct will place this pup at great risk of burning out before she even has a chance to mature.Flybuster wrote:So this is my first hunting dog and I'm not sure what else she needs to learn I'm going to teach her to break off a retrieve in case a cripple heads towards a road etc.
You’re missing letting your pup be a pup. That doesn’t last long, and is very important.Flybuster wrote:but other than doing what we’re doing what am I missing?
There is a stark difference between being lucky, and being smart. You can control being smart, and that is the course I highly recommend. Slow down, and let this pup grow a bit. Bond closely with your pup, and let the manmade skills come more slowly and thoroughly.Flybuster wrote:Most guys I know keep telling me I'm going to fast, going to ruin the dog and i dint get him i could this pup seems to love learning and listening I only treat trained for 3 days now were strictly positive reinforcement. I don't have to yell scold anything. So am I doing something wrong
In the following post is an excerpt from the first chapter in Smartwork for Retrievers volume one. It deals with important principles of training retrievers.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Should I slow down?
Having trained hundreds of retrievers over 35 years, I've seen nice eager pups pushed along too soon because they were willing to do it. Soon, many of them no longer had any interest in the game they were born to play, and that's sad. Below are some thoughts to consider.
Chapter 1
Fundamental Training Principles
Smartwork
(Work smart)
You need not be an especially gifted person to be successful with your dog. As with any pursuit, you will see people involved with dog training who are especially gifted. There is just a special aptitude that they seem to have. I’m speaking of something that doesn’t come from books or tapes, but is pretty much factory equipment.
The information provided in this course of training will allow anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear, a “Smartwork” vehicle to attain their goals, according to their willingness to do the WORK. Working smart allows you to make the most of whatever time you have available.
The Principle of Attrition in Dog Training
It’s not the opposite of pressure, but an alternate type.
The New WEBSTER Encyclopedic DICTIONARY of the ENGLISH LANGUAGE defines attrition as: The act of wearing down. This is done by structuring your training to provide dogs with numerous opportunities to perfect their skills through exposure in a success-oriented environment. The dog’s resistance to comply with high standards of work is eroded. Ultimately, what remains is a willingness to operate at the highest level, and to do so reliably. By repetitious teaching, rather than constant, and, or severe correction, dogs tend to accept high standards better, and to look better in the performance of their work. It is not my approach to merely force dogs into submission (…been there, done that).
Success in dog training is like success in any pursuit; the finished product isn’t achieved in a single day. The development and maintenance of working retrievers should be the result of exposure to clear instruction, rather than the inflicting of demands by way of mere pressure/correction.
Attrition is the essence of the patient, orderly presentation of information. What we should all understand is that the only part of what we require these dogs to do that is their idea results from their inborn desire to fetch, or chase after motion. All the rest has been created for, and in some way, imposed upon them. That may sound grim, but it need not be.
Many people, over the course of countless hours and many years, have developed methods of presenting this work to dogs in such a way that they can do truly amazing things and enjoy it!
An excellent example of attrition is the properly executed Tune up Drill. Instead of a single blind, with corrections for every mistake, there are 10, 12, 20, or more shorter, simpler blinds that provide a dog with many opportunities to learn from.
Be a Coach
How you approach this pursuit mentally can make all the difference in the result. This refers not only to how the dogs’ work looks, but how the two of you enjoy spending this time together. The best coaches are mentors to their athletes.
You are the coach on this team. The dog is the athlete. You know what results are required, and now have the methods at hand to achieve the goals you’ve set forth. The question is, how will the dog perceive the situation, and how will that affect the finished product? Will he end up slithering around in constant fear of correction, or fly around like he loves what he’s doing?
• Big secret of the day: Dogs fly around like they love what they’re doing because they do love what they’re doing! No one has robbed them of the joy in their work through heavy-handedness in the guise of training. You were looking for deeply kept secrets about all of this, weren’t you?
When your dog learns that you are the coach, and must be respected, but still loved and trusted, the two of you have become a team. When you establish that type of relationship with your dog, you are on your way to finding out just how good he might be. This, I believe, is provided that the team is equipped with a strong set of basics to build upon, and to maintain what skills are to come.
The teamwork approach will help you to avoid some common traps. One of those traps is treating any one training session as though it can’t end until the final product or goal is achieved. Many people fall into this trap and take their dogs with them. They often feel the pressure of too little time vs. too much to do to stay on a developmental or maintenance schedule.
....and much, much more.
EvanG
Chapter 1
Fundamental Training Principles
Smartwork
(Work smart)
You need not be an especially gifted person to be successful with your dog. As with any pursuit, you will see people involved with dog training who are especially gifted. There is just a special aptitude that they seem to have. I’m speaking of something that doesn’t come from books or tapes, but is pretty much factory equipment.
The information provided in this course of training will allow anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear, a “Smartwork” vehicle to attain their goals, according to their willingness to do the WORK. Working smart allows you to make the most of whatever time you have available.
The Principle of Attrition in Dog Training
It’s not the opposite of pressure, but an alternate type.
The New WEBSTER Encyclopedic DICTIONARY of the ENGLISH LANGUAGE defines attrition as: The act of wearing down. This is done by structuring your training to provide dogs with numerous opportunities to perfect their skills through exposure in a success-oriented environment. The dog’s resistance to comply with high standards of work is eroded. Ultimately, what remains is a willingness to operate at the highest level, and to do so reliably. By repetitious teaching, rather than constant, and, or severe correction, dogs tend to accept high standards better, and to look better in the performance of their work. It is not my approach to merely force dogs into submission (…been there, done that).
Success in dog training is like success in any pursuit; the finished product isn’t achieved in a single day. The development and maintenance of working retrievers should be the result of exposure to clear instruction, rather than the inflicting of demands by way of mere pressure/correction.
Attrition is the essence of the patient, orderly presentation of information. What we should all understand is that the only part of what we require these dogs to do that is their idea results from their inborn desire to fetch, or chase after motion. All the rest has been created for, and in some way, imposed upon them. That may sound grim, but it need not be.
Many people, over the course of countless hours and many years, have developed methods of presenting this work to dogs in such a way that they can do truly amazing things and enjoy it!
An excellent example of attrition is the properly executed Tune up Drill. Instead of a single blind, with corrections for every mistake, there are 10, 12, 20, or more shorter, simpler blinds that provide a dog with many opportunities to learn from.
Be a Coach
How you approach this pursuit mentally can make all the difference in the result. This refers not only to how the dogs’ work looks, but how the two of you enjoy spending this time together. The best coaches are mentors to their athletes.
You are the coach on this team. The dog is the athlete. You know what results are required, and now have the methods at hand to achieve the goals you’ve set forth. The question is, how will the dog perceive the situation, and how will that affect the finished product? Will he end up slithering around in constant fear of correction, or fly around like he loves what he’s doing?
• Big secret of the day: Dogs fly around like they love what they’re doing because they do love what they’re doing! No one has robbed them of the joy in their work through heavy-handedness in the guise of training. You were looking for deeply kept secrets about all of this, weren’t you?
When your dog learns that you are the coach, and must be respected, but still loved and trusted, the two of you have become a team. When you establish that type of relationship with your dog, you are on your way to finding out just how good he might be. This, I believe, is provided that the team is equipped with a strong set of basics to build upon, and to maintain what skills are to come.
The teamwork approach will help you to avoid some common traps. One of those traps is treating any one training session as though it can’t end until the final product or goal is achieved. Many people fall into this trap and take their dogs with them. They often feel the pressure of too little time vs. too much to do to stay on a developmental or maintenance schedule.
....and much, much more.
EvanG
“Not all of us can do great things. But we can do small things with great love.”
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
― Mother Teresa
There is little reason to expect a dog to be more precise than you are.-- Rex Carr
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
Official Evan Graham Retriever Training Forum
Re: Should I slow down?
First off i would like to thank you guys for replying, before i got my pup i bought tom dokken's puppy training as well as spending countless hours online, reading posts here, watching you tube ect. This has been so much fun for me so far i cant even explain it! she "ABBY" is being raised in a family house with my wife and two kids 11 and 9 so believe me when i say she gets her puppy play and snuggle time in with daily walks to the park ect.
evan, i believe the steadiness came from her first few days at home working on the basics of sit come and stay
, literally at 8 weeks 1 day she was sitting so i started working on stay i would tell her to sit -stay-put a treat down in front of her while holding her collar, after just a few tries i didnt have to hold her but when she would flinch i would give her a whoa and she setteled by herself an exuberent GO and she was off to get her treat. by day 2 she sat motionless with her ears perked forward stone cold staring at the treat for nearly 5 minutes before i gave the command, always with positive reinforcement and alot of it
we work alot of commands into our every day lives, especially stay, example before we go anywhere i ask her to stay while im getting my shoes on the leash ect, carrying laundry to the basement she stays at the top of the stairs, we make her stay while pouring her food and water.
I would say 4 times a day for 20 minutes or less is actual training time, and its not really formal or structered all the time,but we play games all the time her directions came simply by working her up command i would point one arm out while standing between my couch and loveseat pointing and giving the command and the reward...she played with wings but her duck intro i grabbed a bufflehead out of the freezer just playing around tossed it in the yard and she hesitated sniffing and licking for a minute before long she picked up dropped it by my feet and sat by my side wagging her tale anxiously staring at me so we started retrieving short tossed ducks at 9 weeks then started incorperating her UP and BOX command i dont have a starter pistol nor can i shoot in my yard so i would stand behind her and told my son when i smack these 2 boards together throw the duck and thats how it all started
As far as pushing i dont feel like i am simply because she will do everything with the minimal amount of coaching and i have not had the need to enforce anything she just semmingly understands what im asking and is more than happy to do it,
In my opinion wich dont count for much as this is my first true training experience the fundamentals for me have been making everything fun, i wanst expecting the world from her or myself for that matter, i most certianly did not expect to be at this point at a little over 14 weeks,when we sucsessfully reach a new goal i add a new one thats how everything happen so fast
and ps i had no intention of teaching her to break off a retrieve at this point for fear of thinking she was doing something wrong
evan, i believe the steadiness came from her first few days at home working on the basics of sit come and stay
, literally at 8 weeks 1 day she was sitting so i started working on stay i would tell her to sit -stay-put a treat down in front of her while holding her collar, after just a few tries i didnt have to hold her but when she would flinch i would give her a whoa and she setteled by herself an exuberent GO and she was off to get her treat. by day 2 she sat motionless with her ears perked forward stone cold staring at the treat for nearly 5 minutes before i gave the command, always with positive reinforcement and alot of it
we work alot of commands into our every day lives, especially stay, example before we go anywhere i ask her to stay while im getting my shoes on the leash ect, carrying laundry to the basement she stays at the top of the stairs, we make her stay while pouring her food and water.
I would say 4 times a day for 20 minutes or less is actual training time, and its not really formal or structered all the time,but we play games all the time her directions came simply by working her up command i would point one arm out while standing between my couch and loveseat pointing and giving the command and the reward...she played with wings but her duck intro i grabbed a bufflehead out of the freezer just playing around tossed it in the yard and she hesitated sniffing and licking for a minute before long she picked up dropped it by my feet and sat by my side wagging her tale anxiously staring at me so we started retrieving short tossed ducks at 9 weeks then started incorperating her UP and BOX command i dont have a starter pistol nor can i shoot in my yard so i would stand behind her and told my son when i smack these 2 boards together throw the duck and thats how it all started
As far as pushing i dont feel like i am simply because she will do everything with the minimal amount of coaching and i have not had the need to enforce anything she just semmingly understands what im asking and is more than happy to do it,
In my opinion wich dont count for much as this is my first true training experience the fundamentals for me have been making everything fun, i wanst expecting the world from her or myself for that matter, i most certianly did not expect to be at this point at a little over 14 weeks,when we sucsessfully reach a new goal i add a new one thats how everything happen so fast
and ps i had no intention of teaching her to break off a retrieve at this point for fear of thinking she was doing something wrong
Re: Should I slow down?
lol, evan i didnt realize it but i have watched all the videos youve posted and read as much of your info as i could find
Sincerely thanks ,Scott
Sincerely thanks ,Scott