Gun Dog Forum

What would be the easiest way to get your dog steady on shot/drop ?

Most methods have their own way of doing it. You'll get different answers from people using different methods. One way of STARTING to get a dog steady to fall is once the dog will let you walk in front of it to flush the bird, have the dog on a check cord, get a helper to walk in and flush/shoot the bird. The dog will want to break on the shot and fall, keep it there with the CC. Have the helper walk over to the bird, pick it up and toss it in the air. Again, the dog will want to break, have it stand again. Keep repeating until the dog will watch the bird hit the ground without moving. As soon as it stands without moving send it on the retrieve. After a couple times of doing this it learns the only way it gets to have the bird is if it stands and watches it fall.

buy the book "Training with Mo". There's also some dvd's out there about the "West Method". I

The way Brad described is the way I do it works with little effort. I would also add that I don't let the dog retreive every bird only about every 5 or 6 bird one time than every 3 bird the next keep them guessing

I would get the dog steady to wing and shot before killing any birds at all. I do this initially by planting birds in launchers and having the dog on a checkcord. i typically bring the dog in crosswing so it hits the scent cone hard. When the bird flushes and when the shot is fired, the dog is on the checkcord so any forward progress can be stopped.

Once the dog is quite reliable about watching the bird fly away after the shot, I would do exactly the same thing,the same way, but have the services of a gunner to kill the bird. The dog is still on the checkcord so if it breaks it can be stopped. once reliable to fall, the dog can be sent for the retrieve. I completely agree with the poster who suggested allowing only one retriev e out of five or six kills...and only if the dog does not move a toenail until released.

Later on, to proof the dog, you can put birds in launchers or in kick cages or hard planted, but hobbled with about 25 or 30 ft of light string that is attached to a weight. When the bird flies off if you fire the gun as the bird gets to the end of the string the bird will get yanked out of the sky, very much like it was shot. This will be a big temptation for the dog and will serve to "proof " the dog, without actually killing the bird. The fact that the bird is alive and can actually get up again or flop around will also be a good test for the dog's training. If it will stand for a bird flopping around, it will surely stand for one that is laying there dead as a stone.

RayG

Why do I get the feeling you already know the answer to this question?

If you want the dog to stand flat footed broke at the kill don't let it retrieve any of the birds at 1st. Have the gunner go out and fetch the bird back to the standing dog and give it to him. Once this is in place then send the dog for a retrieve some of the time, other times just walk out and get the bird for the dog.

Mo

Yep +1 ,seen it work many a time.................. just like mo suggests ,What you get in the end is one that continues to vibrate and look like shiny diamonds all stacked up in a pile,not a word is said,not a bit of style is dropped,birds are dead and on the ground and the dog ain't moved a hair and looks the same as when he swapped ends.

Maurice wrote:If you want the dog to stand flat footed broke at the kill don't let it retrieve any of the birds at 1st. Have the gunner go out and fetch the bird back to the standing dog and give it to him. Once this is in place then send the dog for a retrieve some of the time, other times just walk out and get the bird for the dog.

Mo

4dabirds wrote:Why do I get the feeling you already know the answer to this question?

I do have my way of doing, as they say always we will look at things and try some, keep the ideas that work.

great to keep an open mind

Jip jip jip .....

Also not one dog the same ! Ha

Hope to get advice and what worked, not much luck !

In S. Africa no one shares really and not to many guys in the game, it would be nice to get some new ideas.
Like FF not known Evan Geaham is a ghost name, you can not get it in S. Africa.(did contact him on the forum)
No pro trainers available ! You on your own here .....

Prong collars ? Is it a movie .... ?

In S. Africa do you do an American style flush where the handler flushes the game or a British style flush where the dog does the flushing ? I ask because in Britain the dog would be required to sit to flush or to lie down if it was a pointer or setter.

I train for a sit to flush (My dog does the flushing not me) ....... I train for a sit to shot ....... and I train for a sit to the fall of game. Done in that way the dog has had 3 commands to sit and I don't have to add a whistle or a command word or a hand signal. I can reserve the whistle for any "emergencies !"

Bill T.

Heresy ! in this country labs sit , pointers point .Don't get the peanut gallery started.

4dabirds wrote:Heresy ! in this country labs sit , pointers point .Don't get the peanut gallery started.

Sorry about that but the O.P. is from S. Africa ...... they may do things differently to your mob !

Bill T.

Trekmoor wrote:

4dabirds wrote:Heresy ! in this country labs sit , pointers point .Don't get the peanut gallery started.

Sorry about that but the O.P. is from S. Africa ...... they may do things differently to your mob !

Bill T.

yeh upside down.
here the dog flushes, & depending on the level required, is steady or not
can't ever understand why you blokes would have a dog hunt & point, then 6' human walks in front & starts kicking around for something you can't see & has possibly run or is about to
pointers of any persuasion do not sit @ the flush imo
.........tasi

ps. Francois , why not tell us how you train for 'steady to shot'

tasi devil wrote:

Trekmoor wrote:

4dabirds wrote:Heresy ! in this country labs sit , pointers point .Don't get the peanut gallery started.

can't ever understand why you blokes would have a dog hunt & point, then 6' human walks in front & starts kicking around for something you can't see & has possibly run or is about to
'

Must admit it baffles me why anyone would own a dog and then do all the barking himself. I like to look at where the dog is pointing and then get myself set ready to shoot and then tell the dog to "Get in !" The dog knows where the bird is and the dog goes into the brambles or the bog , not me !
Maybe we are lazier in other parts of the world ?
I could be wrong because I've never done the flushing myself but I have a feeling that if the pointing dog is standing there anticipating that any second now it will be told to go in and flush a bird the intensity of the dogs point increases ???

Bill T.

All joking aside there are two very good reasons , pen raised birds and no knuckle head is going to shoot my dog if the dog is behind them.

I also do not allow a retrieve on every bird in training and when I do, it is only when the dog has remained totally steady. You may also try more than one bird off of the point. Have a second or even third bird in launchers and after the first is flushed and shot, continue working the area and launch the second bird. The dog will learn that there is more than one bird present and this will help with steadiness.

Trekmoor wrote:In S. Africa do you do an American style flush where the handler flushes the game or a British style flush where the dog does the flushing ? I ask because in Britain the dog would be required to sit to flush or to lie down if it was a pointer or setter.

I train for a sit to flush (My dog does the flushing not me) ....... I train for a sit to shot ....... and I train for a sit to the fall of game. Done in that way the dog has had 3 commands to sit and I don't have to add a whistle or a command word or a hand signal. I can reserve the whistle for any "emergencies !"

Bill T.

Here you can choose, I let the dog flush cause they generaly know were tne birds are ! Ha !

Francois P vd Walt wrote:

Trekmoor wrote:In S. Africa do you do an American style flush where the handler flushes the game or a British style flush where the dog does the flushing ? I ask because in Britain the dog would be required to sit to flush or to lie down if it was a pointer or setter.

I train for a sit to flush (My dog does the flushing not me) ....... I train for a sit to shot ....... and I train for a sit to the fall of game. Done in that way the dog has had 3 commands to sit and I don't have to add a whistle or a command word or a hand signal. I can reserve the whistle for any "emergencies !"

Bill T.

Here you can choose, I let the dog flush cause they generaly know were tne birds are ! Ha !

So I have read some posts by the two of you about steadying a dog and now my perception of things you have said in the past are a little different. i think as it relates to methodology ,training a dog that is steady to wing shot and fall is going to be greatly different to training a dog that is steady and then commanded to flush. While I concede that teaching sit to flush may be difficult in its own rite , the initial training of steady on birds becomes somewhat easier.

tasi devil wrote:

Trekmoor wrote:

4dabirds wrote:Heresy ! in this country labs sit , pointers point .Don't get the peanut gallery started.

Sorry about that but the O.P. is from S. Africa ...... they may do things differently to your mob !

Bill T.

yeh upside down.
here the dog flushes, & depending on the level required, is steady or not
can't ever understand why you blokes would have a dog hunt & point, then 6' human walks in front & starts kicking around for something you can't see & has possibly run or is about to
pointers of any persuasion do not sit @ the flush imo
.........tasi

ps. Francois , why not tell us how you train for 'steady to shot'

Well first of all I never shoot over my own dog untill I am sure it is steady on all flush, shot & drop etc.
I handle tne dog when tne shot goes I would force the dog to sit and stay they get the idea after a few sessions if your timing is right.

We also work on sit command being the main dicipline control factor then move over to wistle one long blow sit &
Two would be the recall, shouting makes you loose your voice and at 200m the wistle works better for the dog and consistency.

Can tell you this, my flushing dogs have all ended up deaf or hearing impaired before 10, my pointers hear fine

I will also hunt a flusher or my lab that points (and flushes on command) with my pointers, Some of us are lazy on this side of the pond too