Tips for Hunt Tests

phillipsgsp · Post by **phillipsgsp** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:15 pm

The master level is definitly getting more popular. For the last couple of years we have had usually 5 to 8 braces of masters compaired to 2 or 3 in previous years. The sport is growing, and thats great. We need to encourage new handlers to train to the sh and mh levels. At least if you get to that level you know how much time and effort it takes to earn these titles. I don't think the average person seeing a mh on a pedigree really understands the what it takes to to get that title. I sometimes think that it is really underated by some people.

Chad

monksmom · Post by **monksmom** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:51 pm

After just finishing JH, I can say this...table training on whoa to shot and flush were invaluable...everything else took care of itself in the field. I had also been working on honoring and my dog honored in his third leg. Just try to relax and have fun and your dog will work better. Cool weather helps too!

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:33 pm

Someone mentioned getting your dogs used to horses being a good idea. Someone else said "Don't worry about it". I remember watching a judge get bucked off pretty badly a few years ago at a trial when a weim that had never been around horses dove right in and hamstrung the horse biting it several times.

Getting your dogs a good introduction to horse, not just five minutes of being walked around on a lead near one at your first event with horses is a very good idea. CR

Scott Linden · Post by **Scott Linden** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:56 pm

Have fun.

I was lucky enough to figure this out the day before a NAVHDA natural ability test ... train too hard, and your frustration and stress are sensed by the dog. He then reflects the same attitude. By the time you're at the test, the learning and teaching are complete and there's no point in "cramming" like we did in college.
Loosen up, be encouraging of your dog, be positive, and enjoy yourself. Your dog will likely feel more confident and eager to please.

wwindus · Post by **wwindus** » Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:34 pm

"2. Offer to help with the test. I learned more by gunning SH and MH than any other way."

Actually, I enjoy planting birds. It give me lots of practice handling and dizzying birds, understanding objectives and watching the different breeds (and handlers) and the way they hunt. It is a GREAT experience, and clubs are always looking for bird planters.

markyzz · Post by **markyzz** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:00 am

Thanks for all the tips.. I'll remember that.. I am just a beginner.

_____________________
They say fingers were made before forks, and hands before police baton.

-"markyzzykram"-

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:40 am

SwitchGrassWPG wrote:Don't forgo a lower level test because you think your dog is capable of passing a higher level.

I've never ran a dog in a HT before, but when my dogs get older and are fully steady to wing and shot I wa planning on skipping JH and SH and heading right into MH. I just can't see investing all that time and money into the JH or SH, when it's all working towards a MH, anyhow. And, if you have a polished dog I cannot see any point in running JH or SH.

From a veteran tester to a rookie tester, why not to just skip over lower level tests if your dog is a MH?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:22 am

One of the maim reasons is that you and your dog need the experience and there is no other way to get it.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:48 am

Here is another reason from what I understand if you start at a higher level & your dog can't or don't pass you can't go down to a lower level.
I have never been to a hunt test so can't swear to that but is my understanding.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:12 am

Yes, you can drop back to a lower level.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:52 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Here is another reason from what I understand if you start at a higher level & your dog can't or don't pass you can't go down to a lower level.
I have never been to a hunt test so can't swear to that but is my understanding.

Once you get a leg at a higher level, you cannot go back to the lower level. So if your dog has a JH and you jump over SH to MH & get a leg at that level, you cannot drop back down to SH.

However, if you do not get a leg of MH, you may drop down to SH.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:08 pm

I'm pretty sure they have recently changed that. You're now able to drop down to SH even if you have MH legs, or even a MH title.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:54 pm

Have you heard they now have JHA = junior hunter advanced. SHA and MHA. Instead of having to have score no lower than 7 in any category , you have to have 8

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:33 pm

phermes1 wrote:I'm pretty sure they have recently changed that. You're now able to drop down to SH even if you have MH legs, or even a MH title.

Ok... officially confused now.

Can you find out which is true now?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:59 am

I wish I would have taken a video two weeks ago at a hunt test. I Gould have given some good examples.

Don't kick a bird at the gunner.

Have the gunners walk on either side approx 15 feet away, don't pick a spot and tell them to stand. You will have cleaner shots for the gunners and look like you know what you are doing.

If you see your dog fail, don't be in denial and ask if you passed and seem upset when you fail. Just thank the judges and ask them what they want you to do.

Don't grab your dogs collar when you go to flush a bird.

Don't scream whoa, your dog may break down and lay on its belly.

When you are putting your dog in MH, you may want to practice backing.

When you run your dog in SH or MH train with a puppy and let it rip birds out after it steals point.

The same thing goes with field trials.... winners train, losers complain.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:37 pm

SubMariner wrote: Ok... officially confused now. Can you find out which is true now?

Do your own legwork, lady.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm right. There was an announcement recently from AKC. The reasoning was that some folks might have finished MH's that are older, that they still want to have fun with, but maybe don't have the dog at that level of training anymore. They can now enter the dog in pretty much anything.

As far as MHA, SHA, etc - I asked Gary Sadler about it, and he said they're still working out the details. The leading idea right now is to raise the bar on qualifications, vs just making it a matter of getting more legs.
For instance, instead of requiring an average of a 7 to pass, you would need to average an 8.
Plus - when all the dogs are run, they will take the scores, toss out the highest and lowest scores, and average the rest. Your dog will have to beat that average as well in order to get an MHA/SHA/JHA leg.

At least, that's one of the preliminary plans as of now. It could change by the time things are implemented Feb 1, so don't take it as bible. Gary was pretty clear that they hadn't finalized anything yet.

JMHO, but I'm going to guess that anyone that has been racking up MH legs in anticipation of applying them towards an MHA title is going to be SOL. Like the GCH title, I'm guessing everyone will have to start from scratch.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:09 pm

It's not raising the bar, it's raising more money. Both of my dogs scored 8's on several of their MH test. Why would I want to repeat the process. No thanks, I'll stick with the MH and NAVHDA Utility Test/VC. After this debacle I might even drop the AKC Tests and stay with NAVHDA. If I going to spend the extra entry fees I'd rather run NSTRA.

phermes1 wrote:
SubMariner wrote: Ok... officially confused now. Can you find out which is true now?
Do your own legwork, lady.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm right. There was an announcement recently from AKC. The reasoning was that some folks might have finished MH's that are older, that they still want to have fun with, but maybe don't have the dog at that level of training anymore. They can now enter the dog in pretty much anything.

As far as MHA, SHA, etc - I asked Gary Sadler about it, and he said they're still working out the details. The leading idea right now is to raise the bar on qualifications, vs just making it a matter of getting more legs.
For instance, instead of requiring an average of a 7 to pass, you would need to average an 8.
Plus - when all the dogs are run, they will take the scores, toss out the highest and lowest scores, and average the rest. Your dog will have to beat that average as well in order to get an MHA/SHA/JHA leg.

At least, that's one of the preliminary plans as of now. It could change by the time things are implemented Feb 1, so don't take it as bible. Gary was pretty clear that they hadn't finalized anything yet.

JMHO, but I'm going to guess that anyone that has been racking up MH legs in anticipation of applying them towards an MHA title is going to be SOL. Like the GCH title, I'm guessing everyone will have to start from scratch.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:39 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:It's not raising the bar, it's raising more money. Both of my dogs scored 8's on several of their MH test. Why would I want to repeat the process. No thanks, I'll stick with the MH and NAVHDA Utility Test/VC. After this debacle I might even drop the AKC Tests and stay with NAVHDA. If I going to spend the extra entry fees I'd rather run NSTRA.

Don't get me wrong, I agree. I spend enough $ on entry fees to where I'm totally not motivated to go for an advanced HT title. Personally, I don't see what an MHA tells me about a dog that an MH doesn't. If people are truly looking to just go out and have fun with their dogs, then I totally support that and I hope they enjoy themselves, but it's just not a title that I'm interested in pursuing.

If the AKC suckered me, it's when they allowed some pointing breeds into retriever hunt tests. I'm running Shooter in a retriever JH test in February. I looked at the standards, and it's not all that different from what he had to do for UT, so what the heck, right?

Should be a different experience for us!

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:23 pm

phermes1 wrote:
SubMariner wrote: Ok... officially confused now. Can you find out which is true now?
Do your own legwork, lady.

Hey... you're supposed to be the judge. <whine-whimper-whine>

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm right. There was an announcement recently from AKC. The reasoning was that some folks might have finished MH's that are older, that they still want to have fun with, but maybe don't have the dog at that level of training anymore. They can now enter the dog in pretty much anything.

As it happens, I think I found the info you were talking about:

"Pointing Breed Hunting Test Regulations - Change to Test Entry Requirements
At their August meeting, the Board passed a staff recommendation to allow a dog to enter a lower level test until such time as the dog has earned a title at a higher level. Prior to this change, a dog was not allowed to enter a lower level once it had earned one passing score at a higher level. The staff feels this provides flexibility to the program and will act to the advantage of dogs/owners in certain situations. This change should not be misunderstood to mean a dog can change classes after entries have closed. The change takes effect immediately.
August 11, 2009"

As far as MHA, SHA, etc - I asked Gary Sadler about it, and he said they're still working out the details. The leading idea right now is to raise the bar on qualifications, vs just making it a matter of getting more legs.
For instance, instead of requiring an average of a 7 to pass, you would need to average an 8.
Plus - when all the dogs are run, they will take the scores, toss out the highest and lowest scores, and average the rest. Your dog will have to beat that average as well in order to get an MHA/SHA/JHA leg.

At least, that's one of the preliminary plans as of now. It could change by the time things are implemented Feb 1, so don't take it as bible. Gary was pretty clear that they hadn't finalized anything yet.

JMHO, but I'm going to guess that anyone that has been racking up MH legs in anticipation of applying them towards an MHA title is going to be SOL. Like the GCH title, I'm guessing everyone will have to start from scratch.

Yeah, I got that bulletin too. Don't quite know how I feel about it yet. I guess as long as I don't have to do any extra paperwork @ the HT, I'll be a happy camper either way.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:23 am

This is the latest. They updated it further to allow titled SH/MH dogs to run at lower levels.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/hunting_ ... v_2011.pdf

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:29 am

Just found this announcement dated 12/7

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/hunting_ ... _Intro.pdf

Looks like they dropped the part about averaging the other qualifying scores, so all you need is an 8 average to get an advanced leg. And yes, there's more paperwork involved, but at least it's the owner's responsibility to get it taken care of.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/hunting_ ... cation.pdf

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:01 am

Rick just finished a SH, the dog only got 3 JH legs. He went into Sr and got 4 legs, went into JH and got the last leg which finished both titles...............He did it after he asked Gary if it would work....

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:40 am

snips wrote:Rick just finished a SH, the dog only got 3 JH legs. He went into Sr and got 4 legs, went into JH and got the last leg which finished both titles...............He did it after he asked Gary if it would work....

Hmm - I really hadn't thought about it from that angle. I'll have to remember that if/when we ever put Patriot in SH - he only has 3 JH legs.

Knightfarms · Post by **Knightfarms** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:28 am

snips wrote:Rick just finished a SH, the dog only got 3 JH legs. He went into Sr and got 4 legs, went into JH and got the last leg which finished both titles...............He did it after he asked Gary if it would work....

How come he went back and finished the junior title when the senior title is a higher level?

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:36 pm

The only thing I could think of is getting a certificate from AKC but then again if the SH was already issued I wouldn't think so. AKC does track how many passes you get on a dog.

I might try for a JH advanced to go with my MH. Gotta start somewhere.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:49 pm

By finishing the JH he only had to have the 4 SH passes for the title. No JH then it would have been 5 SH passes. Really don't see the reasoning, another entry fee either way and the dog already had 4 SH passes so it could do the job. JH is obviously easier though.

ultracarry wrote:The only thing I could think of is getting a certificate from AKC but then again if the SH was already issued I wouldn't think so. AKC does track how many passes you get on a dog.

I might try for a JH advanced to go with my MH. Gotta start somewhere.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:15 am

Forgot about that. Same would apply for master and going back to SH. If I can find some hunt tests I may try to get a junior hunter advanced.... That would be fun.

BlackwellGWP · Post by **BlackwellGWP** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:37 pm

Here's my tip O' the day for SH and MH, learned this from an old timer many moons ago. If the birds aren't flying on the flush, ask the judge if you can toss it. Just make sure when you let go, that you tossed it far enough for the gunners, and that it won't be flying too far

You have to throw it without coming backwards towards the dog and without blocking.

Doc E · Post by **Doc E** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:47 pm

Maybe somebody already mentined this --- Don't forget to thank the Judges. They work their butts off (at no pay) just to give back to the sport.
If you have a chance, also thank the Helpers.

.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:57 am

This will be our 3rd year running HTs for two GSP Clubs here in FL. Some observations:

1) Do as much as you can online @ AKC. If your club doesn't already have an online account, get one of the Executive to create one. It takes a huge amount of the paperwork & trouble out of the whole process, including empanelling Judges. Speaking of which:

2) Try & build a Judge's Pool. Find out from clubs in your general area who they use & why. Contact these people EARLY, because HT Judges are hard to find, let alone schedule for your event.

3) Be as accommodating as you can to your Judges. As has already been said, they are basically volunteering their time & effort to work at your event. At the very least you should be covering their gas or other travelling expenses. Feed them, take care of them. Besides your sincere gratitude, a gift card to Cabella's or Bass Pro wouldn't go amiss at the end of it all.

4) Build an email list for your premiums. If you have ever been on the receiving end of some emails from your fellow dog people, you'll see there are probably a lot of names you can "borrow" as your base, and work up from there. Also FB is a great way to "advertise" your event. Invite people!

5) Use this software: http://www.fieldeventsoftware.com/. This is NOT a shameless plug for someone I know & respect, but rather is a genuine recommendation for something that works & makes your life a lot easier. It allows you to spend your time & energy on making this a positive experience rather than a drudge of paperwork. Speaking of which:

6) Be positive, be professional. Welcome everyone to your event like they are a long lost cousin. Enjoy the people, dogs, horses, and the wonderful outdoors (even if the outdoors are not enjoying you <lol>) Have lots of water, sodas & other refreshments. If numbers permit, do lunch &/or pitch in dinner at night. It doesn't have to be fancy or expensive to be done right.

Feel free to add to this list!

scpa0305 · Post by **scpa0305** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:50 pm

Sorry guys, I am probably posting this in the wrong thread but I'm going to get this out there. I'm sure many have their different opinions, however, I would like to hear them all. Please explain the difference between NAVHDA/AKC Tests/NSTRA? I know the acronyms, I would like to know which set of tests are more rigorous, which are the easiest, etc. My young GSP received a Prize 1 in a NAVHDA test, however, I had to give up the extensive training due to having a tighter budget with a kid now and all. With my next dog, I would like to continue the hunt tests as they were fun. I would also like to learn how to better train dogs myself (any groups in MN?).

UpNorthHuntin · Post by **UpNorthHuntin** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:11 pm

If all goes well this winter and spring, I intend on entering my Britt in hunt tests early next year. Could someone recommend a good book or possibly a few videos? I intend on going to one or two as a spectator first, but just knowing what I'm looking for prior to going to spectate would be good. Even knowing the "Hunt Test Lingo" and stuff like that prior to attending will help the learning curve tremendously.

AmericanBrittGuy · Post by **AmericanBrittGuy** » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:55 pm

May sound extreme, but the most helpful thing I did was attend a judges seminar.

A2Brit · Post by **A2Brit** » Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:17 am

The absouletly BEST thing I did was buy a book called "QUAILIFY". It is out of print, but it gives a complete description of the process, as well as tips on how to handle the dog under different circumstances. I recently also attended a JUDGES Seminar, put on by the AKC. That was an opportunity to talk to current judges in a relaxed atmosphere, to get their perspective of what they want to see. I have my male brit completed at the Senior level, and he has failed about 8 Master tests (mostly because he does not have an natural "honor"). I worked with him all winter, and feel he is ready to pass the Master this spring. My advice would be to go once as an observer..then get your dog started in the Junior program. Test as often as you can...the experience helps both you and the dog.

A2Brit

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue May 28, 2013 9:10 pm

Dogs can now drop down to compete in any level. They changed it when they adopted the "advanced" levels" at HT's. a few years ago. It doesnt matter how many legs either. I have a dog with 15 MH legs including his MHA and he can now run in JH and SH.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:31 pm

Nstra isn't a test its a trial.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:29 am

birddog1968 wrote:Nstra isn't a test its a trial.

The topic was Hunt Tests.... NSTRA doesn't reward what I call "finished" dogs. AKC MH dogs are more polished and MHA proves they are even better since the standards are raised.

dobrostarr · Post by **dobrostarr** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:49 am

Ryan wrote:Just be quiet and let the dog work. The dog cant disobey commands if you are not giving them.

.

That's like the dog trainer version of:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

stevereyes2020 · Post by **stevereyes2020** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:54 pm

Thanks for a geart tips

weimdogman · Post by **weimdogman** » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Train in differant water like you do differant fields Rivers,ponds,sloughs and lakes..
Soft bottoms,gravel bottoms,vegatation of diff types, steep and gradual for both entrances/water depths.

In the field stop and water your dog as a calming moment. This also gives the judges a little break.

weimdogman · Post by **weimdogman** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:02 am

Train your dog to be steady to birds PERIOD.
Train with a group so dog is able to ignore strange dogs and strange

people.
Train your dog to be steady on birds PERIOD.

I failed a na test because a previously planted chuckar ran right in front of my dog before we got into the bird field. As most know if they catch the first 1 lookout they prob are going to catch them all.

Failed a na test because poorly planted birds in sparse cover were in plain sight. Dog just charged in and "retrieved" them.

Watch trials and dogs are pointing from a distance. This does help in preventing unwanted actions.