New pup(Lab)and in need of advice....

[backagain]

I was an avid waterfowl hunter ten years ago but due to family issues and having to deal with my Mother who suffered from Alzheimers I had to put hunting on the back burner. I had a good water dog but he passed two years ago and I just got a new pup and am starting over. I had previously trained using Water Dog by Wolters. I forgot most of what I taught my dog.

My question is should I go back to the Wolters methods or something else. I did order Wildrose DVD and have read a lot on several forums. Seems there is no rush in training except some basic obedience and retrieving drive build. I think the Wolters method has a dog working in about six moths or so?

My pup is almost 10wks old and in the house and is being crate trained. I have her doing a few short retrieves in a hallway.

Any advice would be great. I would also like to know where I can get some wings and possibly live birds.

Thank you!

[fireangel]

I like the Smartworks series by Evan Graham another good book is The 10 Minute Retriever by John and Amy Dahl both are very informative.

[bumper52]

Although Wolter's book has some sound principles, it is considered outdated by most trainers today. The big reason is Wolter's set up a time table for his training, and we now understand that every dog develops at varying degrees. Wolter's methods give you a sense that dog training is a race, and that is a big mistake. I, too, highly recommend Evan Graham's Smartworks. It is extremely user friendly. Very easy to follow his program...a step by step sequence of logical steps, building on one another. This is a very fair program for the dog. Plus, Evan is member of this forum and ALWAYS is helpful if you have any questions.

[JIM K]

been hunting with lab a longtime here in pa.my advice is this.ENJOY YOUR LAB.have fun for year .TEACH the commands like sit/come/fetch.
its hard to make pointer out of lab,they are flushers.
i have all books and tapes.
really ,i did not need them .

LABS are very smart and easy to train.secret after first year is getting pup around birds.its that easy.

if you want dog that can go to those trail things, then tapes and most books are nice BUT for hunting, no.

[nikegundog]

Wolters "water dog" was a good book for its time but methods have improved dramatically since then, Wildrose frowns on the e-collar which most believe has revolutionilized dog training. If you want great training material get Grahams (Smartworks), Lardy's (Total Retriever Training) or Swaski's (Fowl Dawgs), those three programsare the big three when it comes to retriever training programs, Fowl Dawgs will be the cheapest. If you just want to teach dog the basics I wouldn't waste my money on any of the three, however if you don't want to be the typical guy who's throwing shells in the direction of the bird hoping you dog will swim in that direction and see the bird, then they are well worth the money.

[phoneman45]

Wolters outdated? I would think the methods that worked on a Lab in the sixty's would work on a LAb today. Or have we created a super Lab that we just unplug and take to the field? Robert Wehle wrote his book Wing and Shot in the early seventies yet it is not considered out of date and is highly sought after by many collectors and still used today. The pointer of the 70's is the same dog today. I own both books and both offer a wealth of information and a solid and proven method to producing a gun dog (both breeds) to be proud of. If Wolters book worked the first time why wouldnt it work the second time?

eric

[bumper52]

Eric, Richard Wolters made a huge contribution for the hunting retriever. He gave a lot of folks a method to train their dog. He was revolutionary. He was a very inspirational individual in the hunting retriever movement. Times have progressed, however, and there are improved methods available. The average hunter could still use "Water Dog" and end up with a good hunting retriever. Today's programs are much more comprehensive. I think there are programs today with a better progression of step by step training. I feel that if someone wants to train a lab to its fullest potential, there are better programs than "Waterdog."

[bumper52]

back again...check your pm's

[crackerd]

Eric, Richard Wolters made a huge contribution for the hunting retriever. He gave a lot of folks a method to train their dog. He was revolutionary. He was a very inspirational individual in the hunting retriever movement. Times have progressed, however, and there are improved methods available. The average hunter could still use "Water Dog" and end up with a good hunting retriever. Today's programs are much more comprehensive. I think there are programs today with a better progression of step by step training. I feel that if someone wants to train a lab to its fullest potential, there are better programs than "Waterdog."

Great take, bumper. Thing is, many want the same thing qualities and capabilities in a duck dog covered and achieved in training a field trial or hunt test retriever. That's why the advanced programs have made Wolters and Robert Milner passe.

MG

[phoneman45]

bumper,

Thanks for the info. I have not trained a lab for myself but have helped a buddy. I buy alot of gundog books from ebay and have all of Wolters books. I have considered a Lab in the future (here in central Ky where I now live we have ducks everywhere) and will look to update my library. I know Jim Spencer has a few good retriever training books out as well as Mike Gould's book on training Labs. I can see where implementing techniques from several different sources could be very beneficial. Thanks again. Remember what Nash Buckingham said, " The best long range load once can have in their boat for hunting ducks is a well trained retiever ' Very true.

good hunting

eric

[crackerd]

I can see where implementing techniques from several different sources could be very beneficial... Remember what Nash Buckingham said, " The best long range load once can have in their boat for hunting ducks is a well trained retiever ' Very true.

Umm, no, doesn't work that way with training retrievers - you end up with the canine equivalent of Johnny Cash's "One Piece At A Time" Cadillac. Did Nash Buckingham ever actually train a retriever? - pardon my skepticism.

MG

[fireangel]

Agree with crackerd, you want to pick a program and stick to that program for the most part. There may be some small parts that you can implement from other programs to help the dog learn and understand better, but for the most part stick to a a single program.

[backagain]

Been watching Beginning Training for Your Retriever by Mike Mathiot and Ilike it.

[phoneman45]

crackerd,

NAsh hunted with two Chessie's Bartholomew and Pat O Gaul, he also hunted over the great black lab Grouse of Arden who was a son of the legendary Shed of Arden. Not sure if he ever trained his own dogs though. What you say about one program makes sense. I am still a big Wolters fan so I may have to lean towards him, will check out others first though. good hunting.

eric