Gun Dog Forum

My Pointer Pup, Cooper, will be 1 year old next month. He has progressed very well lately. He was good on the commands he has been taught so far (come, kennel, whoa, and fetch sometimes heel). This has all been taught on the check chord with most of my information from Delmar Smith's book and things I have read here on the internet. He was obeying extra well if he was on the check chord and would obey when he got around to it if he was off the chord. I decided last week that it was time to introduce an E-collar. I picked up a Dogtra 200NCP Gold. I introduced him to it lightly by using the Kennel command, and the here command. He took to it really good the first couple of nights. After only a couple of stimulations he was obeying on the spot kind of like it was an extension of the check chord. I took him out to run some fields on a hunt club to see if we could find any birds. He took off after some ducks and would not stop chasing them to my call or whistle. I shocked him with the collar and he kept going. I then turned up the power slightly and did it again. Then he just froze in his tracks and would not move till I had to walk right up to him and pull his collar to make him come. After that he was great for the rest of the day and although he did not point them, he even retrieved 3 pheasants for me.

The second issue with the E-collar started happening the last couple of nights. My pup has done this since he was really small. If you walk past his Kennel and he wants out, he cowars down. Almost like a dog that has been beat, although I have never laid a hand on him. This has always bugged me that he does this, but I havn't done anything to correct that behavior. The last couple of nights of yardwork, he started doing this same cowering after he had been corrected with the e-coller. Now if I whoa him, or call him to heel, he cowers down on his haunches or sits and cowers. I had read on dobbs dogs website an article that appeared in the Pointing Dog Journal that to correct this, you could put the E-collar around the dogs belly and as the dog tried to sit or lay down, you could use the E-collar and it would pop them back up. Bad move. He hated that collar there, when he got hit with the shock, he hated it even worse (no it wasn't turned up very high. just enough to see that he was reacting to it when I put it on). He just layed on the ground and rolled around yelping. I felt very bad that it turned out that way. The neighbors probably thought I was beating the heck out of my dog.
Then I took a different route. I looped the check chord around his belly and if he started to cower down on whoa or heel, I pulled him up straight with the chord. This started to work pretty good. I hope I can eliminate the behavior in this way.

Please don't turn this into one of those "These idiots who don't know that they are doing, should not use an E-collar" threads. I would appreciate some constructive help and some tips. THANKS!!!

This is my first experience training a Bird Dog. It has gone so well untill now. I am very frustrated.

I answered you on UplandBirdDog on this, I guess you need a few more opinions.

Thanks Brenda,
I didn't know which would get answered first as this forum is still taking off and a little slow.

The part about him retrieveing 3 birds has me slightly confused . The way that I read this is he flushed the birds and you shot the birds. If this is the case then cease shooting birds that are not pointed, the retrieve is the reward for a properly handled bird. Also pheasants are not the best birds to steady a dog on as they would rather run then hold , especially with a young dog that may crowd the bird.
Regarding the chase it sounds like you gave him a little too much juice. When I used a collar to stop the chase I used a tapping of the button rather then a push and hold , you will notice that the chase becomes shorter each time untill there is no chase. This also self trained that dog for stop to flush. Do not make a scene about the chase let the dog think that the fleeing bird is causing his discomfort.
As for the cowering , stick with what works for that particular dog.

12 Volt Man wrote:Thanks Brenda,
I didn't know which would get answered first as this forum is still taking off and a little slow.

12 Volt,

Commmon' Man! I don't think we're doing too bad. We've only been online for 3 1/2 months...

Here are some stats:

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Take Care,

use the check cord and e-collar together for the come.use your command for come pull the check cord and tap the e- collar light setting. repeat, repeat, and repeat as far as the e-collar around the waist, you need to whoa post the dog first so he knows what you want. cowering? he just showing you your the boss.

I agree with llewgor about the cowering thing. He's just accepting your dominance and that's not a bad thing.

When Justus was playing with Danyelle, he bit her hand on purpose/playing and she, in turn, growled at him to show him that biting is unacceptable. Justus started wizzing on the carpet right then and there.

We later learned that he did it because he was showing acceptance of dominance, and we also have noticed that since that point he no longer challenges Danyelle's authority. He obeys nearly instantly when she says "no," "leave it," or "drop it."

As for the e-collar around the waist, I wouldn't do it unless, as described in another post somewhere on this forum, it was a last resort to stop a fighting dog. Around the neck should work fine.

Also, Grant, not bad numbers at all! This is my favorite forum and I check it daily, so keep up the good work by all means!

Commmon' Man! I don't think we're doing too bad. We've only been online for 3 1/2 months...

Grant.
No offense meant. You have created a fantastic place. I love the V-bullien format. Very easy to navigate and your choice of colors is pleasing. Not to mention the very cool pictures you have edited in to the logo of members dogs. Keep it up. I think as we get closer to fall and the hunting season we will have more and more posts.


Cooper has done fantastic in our last two training sessions. I took him out last night to run though a local field. I put the collar on, but did not use it once. He was fairly obedient before, but he took his own sweet time. Now he obeys on command quickly.
This morning I got up real early (5:30am). I took him out for some "roading" on my mountian bike. We stopped at a school with a large soccer field. I had him retrieve a bumper several times. The cool part for me was when I put him on "whoa" and walked all the way to the other end of the field and back while he never took a step. Then I released him for the retreive. I didn't even bother to put the E-collar on him this morning.

None taken 12 Volt

Thanks for hanging out!