Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Bberry20 · Post by **Bberry20** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:31 am

Hhey Everyone,

Wanted to see your thoughts on bird intro to wild birds only. I do not have access to any pen raised birds. What would you suggest other than walking fields and finding wild birds? Any better way or suggestion to get a pup started on them?

Thanks!

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:37 am

I think that's really the only way you can intro wild birds. The pup just has to bump into them the first few time before he figures out he can actively hunt for them. Once he's at that point, I wouldn't do anything until he starts creeping on birds. Once he's creeping I'd whoa break him.

dakotashooter2 · Post by **dakotashooter2** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:12 am

My last springer got an intro to pigeons at 9 weeks. I had a couple in a trap and just set them out where she could see them. After a couple minutes I thought she was going to crawl right into the trap with the birds. From there I went to clipped birds and she never had any problems. At 7 months that dog got away from me when I had dropped (wounded) a Canada goose and hit that goose like a freight train.

Bberry20 · Post by **Bberry20** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:34 am

that was kinda my question. Reading all the posts on here with everyone introducing their pups to pigeons, quail, etc..... but i dont have acess to them so my only option is to walk the fields. I dont think it will be a real problem as we have lots of birds, but i wont be able to do any intro besides wild birds flushing. I guess we will have to see how it goes.

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:38 am

Bberry20 wrote:that was kinda my question. Reading all the posts on here with everyone introducing their pups to pigeons, quail, etc..... but i dont have acess to them so my only option is to walk the fields. I dont think it will be a real problem as we have lots of birds, but i wont be able to do any intro besides wild birds flushing. I guess we will have to see how it goes.

We are using pigeons because we have no access to wild birds! Anyone who has wild birds , uses them . That's a real blessing for you. Count yourself lucky. Don't say anything when pup is around birds. Let him learn by experience.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:05 pm

How old is the pup?

A lot of times use quail or pigeons b/c they are smaller and less intimidating to a small puppy. Also, you can pull all of the flight feathers and let the pup catch the bird to really get them jazzed up about birds. Is catching the bird necessary, probably not, but there is something about a little puppy parading around with that first bird as if it is the biggest trophy in the world.

So, my concerns would be how close could he get to the bird, to make sure that he connects the smell to what just flew, b/c if the bird was to fly to soon, he may not make that connection. Also, what level of prey drive he already has. If it is real strong, no problems, if he is a little skiddish, you might want to work on finding birds. There are some mail order places that you can order a 1/2 dozen "flight conditioned" quail delivered to your home. Have no idea how much, but I have seen some advertisements.

Brandon

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Being in SD, I'm sure bumping into birds wont be a problem. Just take the pup out and let him figure it all out. I know my pup learned way more during early wild bird hunts than early pigeon introduction. You'll know when it's time to start steadying the pup up but for the first 7 - 8 months I'd just let the pup explore and have fun and work on obedience.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:55 pm

I think the only way to introduce birds is use wild birds, even "bleep" birds. They are all birds to a pup and they will teach the pup how to find them. What a pen raised bird teach's a pup is how to maul them!

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:58 pm

dakotashooter2 wrote: At 7 months that dog got away from me when I had dropped (wounded) a Canada goose and hit that goose like a freight train.

Awesome. "I got this one, boss!'

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:24 pm

Back in the day I used to use pigeons etc to introduce and train my dogs, with my last two I went almost all wild birds and I can tell you that after 2 years there is a HUGE difference. I would say the first year of nothing but wild birds has made a gigantic difference in my dogs.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Wild birds are best IMHO. Less chance of the pup getting one.

Leadhead · Post by **Leadhead** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:02 pm

I would caution all of you walking fields with a dog out of season and it may not matter if it’s you place or not. Check your state hunting laws before doing so. Some states have designated dog training areas that can be used out of hunting season to train with what birds may be there or released by you. Be careful you do not need a gun with you to be hunting. The finds in some states can be quite costly along with seizer of property

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:37 pm

DogNewbie wrote:I think that's really the only way you can intro wild birds. The pup just has to bump into them the first few time before he figures out he can actively hunt for them. Once he's at that point, I wouldn't do anything until he starts creeping on birds. Once he's creeping I'd whoa break him.

I am having a little problem with the sequence I guess but normally the pup will run in trying to catch them and when it learns it can catch them it will start pointing. I don't expect the pup to start creeping after it has learned to point. But if it does I wouldn't say anything but just snap the CC and set the pup back and rub the tail and over the back to let it know you are happy it is standing. As you progress with this you can start using the e-collar to stop the chase when the bird flushes.

Whoa is taught in the yard and has little to do with pointing. Most of the dogs points are going to be out of hearing distance and out of sight possibly so having to tell the dog Whoa when it points just doesn't work unless you are keeping the dog within gun range all of the time.

Ezzy

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:31 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:I think that's really the only way you can intro wild birds. The pup just has to bump into them the first few time before he figures out he can actively hunt for them. Once he's at that point, I wouldn't do anything until he starts creeping on birds. Once he's creeping I'd whoa break him.

I am having a little problem with the sequence I guess but normally the pup will run in trying to catch them and when it learns it can catch them it will start pointing. I don't expect the pup to start creeping after it has learned to point. But if it does I wouldn't say anything but just snap the CC and set the pup back and rub the tail and over the back to let it know you are happy it is standing. As you progress with this you can start using the e-collar to stop the chase when the bird flushes.

Whoa is taught in the yard and has little to do with pointing. Most of the dogs points are going to be out of hearing distance and out of sight possibly so having to tell the dog Whoa when it points just doesn't work unless you are keeping the dog within gun range all of the time.

Ezzy

I agree with that sequence. Bumping birds to creeping birds to pointing/holding birds. I also agree that whoa has little to do with pointing and I don't whoa my dog until he breaks point. Just a tool to get my expectations across to my pup.

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:33 pm

DonF wrote:I think the only way to introduce birds is use wild birds, even "bleep" birds. They are all birds to a pup and they will teach the pup how to find them. What a pen raised bird teach's a pup is how to maul them!

+3

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 pm

If we all had access to wild birds you would never hear about training a dog with pen raised birds.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:25 pm

Fact is we do all have access to wild birds. Sparrow's, robins ect are all wild birds. What we don't all have is wild game birds for training. I think the best way to train a dog is to be able to simulate what a wild bird does. I'm sorry, we were only talking about intro to birds.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:46 pm

Vision wrote:If we all had access to wild birds you would never hear about training a dog with pen raised birds.

True, and bird intro can be done just fine with either one.

Charlie

4dabirds · Post by **4dabirds** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:32 am

Dogs learn by association. A locked wing pigeon will never scare a dog it is a controlled environment. Once the dog is aggressively pursuing the bird switch to a clipped wing. Puppies in the fear stage of development will be physically imprinted in the brain with a bad association . This imprinted memory can not be removed. If the dog associates the bird as a bad experience you will have no bird dog.

Gun Dog Forum

Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?

Re: Bird Intro With Only Wild Birds?