A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post Reply
User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:53 pm

This is an outstanding forum and I am a new member to it. I'd love to hear your thoughts on training my new EP. The post is a little lengthy, but I'd like to paint as clear a picture as I can initially. Thanks in advance for your advice. I've hunted for 26 years, but this is the first pointer that I'm going to be training (I've never hunted over dogs much).

A little background on the dog: Elhew bred male - turns 1 in about a week. I've had him for about 2 weeks. I acquired him from a guy that bought him as a 7 week old pup and he started him and worked with him up until last fall. He shot a few birds over him, and joined a pointer club in our area to help him with all of this as he was new to pointer training (as am I). He got a job out of state, so the dog has pretty much run free in his backyard for the last 4-5 months. He did say that he went to the pointer club group training sessions last summer and also received additional help from some other reputable individuals that he met through the pointer club (GSPC of Idaho). He also said that he hunted with the dog a few times last fall (sounded like he was with a lab on at least one occasion). I don't know much about how these hunts went other than he said that he shot a few birds over the dog (at least on pheasant) and that the dog got bolder and bolder as they went out. He also said hunting with the lab helped the dog get confidence to really tear into cover that he was a little hesitant to go in at first (for whatever that is worth).

I had a very reputable English Setter and English Pointer trainer and hunter evaluate the dog for me to see if there were any major problems that he could initially see. In the evaluation, we planted a couple of carded pigeons and waited a few minutes. We then brought the dog in at a 90 degree angle to the 1st bird and he locked up beautifully on 1st scent (probably scented at about 20 yards and froze solid and intense). He probably held point for about 30 seconds and then started to creep. After a couple of slow steps, he rushed in and the bird flew away as we check corded him (we didn't let him chase a carded bird as we knew he could catch it, but he wanted to chase). The 2nd bird was very similar to the first bird, only he held point a little longer (probably close to a minute) and then crept and rushed in being check corded again. Both times we fired a .22 blank on the flush to test for gun shyness. The first time was about 50 yards away with zero reaction. The second time was about 15 feet away with no reaction. The trainer said he really liked the dog and thought he would be a great one to start working. He is put together well with a good temperament and good breeding. The trainer actually started talking pedigrees and I got the impression that he may be interested in breeding to this dog if he turns out well. He really liked him.

The dog will retrieve a frozen quail. When the bird is thrown, he is whoa'd briefly (he whoa's nicely in this retrieving work) and then released with a tap on the head and the command "fetch". He goes quickly to the bird, picks it up, and brings it back. This is done on the check cord as well. Occasionally he will want to go another direction after picking up the bird, so I gently check cord him in if that happens (usually about 1 out of 5 retrieves). He is soft-mouthed and has been more excited about bringing the birds back to me as I have begun letting him hold them longer in his mouth. I have started letting him walk back to the truck with bird in mouth when we are done (I think he is realizing that I'm not the big guy that wants to take his bird immediately away from him when I do this). I don't usually do more than about 3-5 short retrieves a few times per week. He even retrieved a very large plastic dummy used for retriever training the one time I threw it for him.

Now for some advice based on what I've seen since I got him. I have had the dog out about daily on runs behind my home (couple thousand acres of farmland that I have access to). We are working on getting better on "come", and a little bit on "heel. Likes to hunt out in front of me and when I change direction, he gets out in front of me. He typically ranges about 50 - 150 yards with the occasional 200 - 300 yard run if he wants to go check something out or is really intense on something. A sharp whistle blast or yell of his name and he will look at me and change direction with me. He checks back with me occasionally on these outings on his own as well.

I have had the dog out twice in the hills that I live close to. There are quail, chukar, huns, and pheasant there (The Owyhee mountains in SW Idaho). The first outing was me and a couple of my kids and we saw no birds but had a great time. The dog stayed out in front, and behaved well. We ran in to a herd of deer and he did not chase them (although he may not have even seen them run off as I did). All in all, that was a great day in the field getting to know the dog.

Today's outing is where I am having a few questions. I took him to a different location (some farm ground that butts up to some good rimrock chukar country). I found a small retention pond on the farm ground that was full of quail. It was fairly windy, so I check corded the dog into the wind toward the pond (the pond is dry this time of year and very brushy). He was getting very birdy, so I took him off the check cord and let him have at it. He busted into that pond and looked like a flushing dog! Never pointed once as literally several large coveys got up in the pond in front of him and he chased. He was extremely excited and continued to bust through that pond and busted every single that hung around as well. I saw the direction the birds went and hunted him that way. He continued to bust bird after bird and ran by many that flushed as I followed him. He would often get extremely birdy and then take off to another area only to have me flush a bird that he was just feet from as he was acting so birdy. A couple of jack rabbits jumped up as well. He gave chase to one for about 20 yards and then went back to looking for birds. Only once did I see him point briefly (scent pointed at some sage brush for about 5 seconds) and kept running. A quail flushed from that exact location as I went by. We did this for about 1/2 hour, and I decided to head to the rimrocks above the farm ground. I did not do anything other than let him have a great time.

We had a pretty good little hike up to the rimrocks and we were both tired at the top, so we rested for a few minutes and kept hiking. The wind was pretty strong and we worked directly into it. I kept him up high and worked around the rim. Some chukar flushed a short time later off to my left and below me (the dog was 150 yards in front of me). I called his name and changed direction to where the birds flushed from. When he got to where the birds had flushed from he got extremely birdy! I saw the general direction that they flushed and he was hunting that way. When we reached the bottom, it was obvious he was on scent. I was convinced he was going the wrong way, but decided to follow him anyway. A few minutes later, working directly into a pretty strong wind, the chukars flushed about 20 yards in front of him and he chased. He did not show any point on these birds. I let him chase a bit and he went back to hunting into the wind in the direction they had went (back uphill of course). It was time to go, so I called him to me and headed back to the truck. I did a few retrieves with frozen quail at the truck (he performed as usual with that), loaded up, and headed home.

Here is what I would like to know: Why did the dog not point any of those quail (there were tons of them and they were in a fairly small area - 10 to 15 acres at most)? Why did he not point those chukar that he was obviously on? He looked so good on planted pigeons on that evaluation day, that I thought it would carry over to the field quite easily (shows my inexperience). Is it simply a matter of more field time and less pigeon work, more field time and more pigeon work, or something else? I have done no pigeon work in the two weeks that I've owned him other than when we evaluated him.

Also, regarding the gun. I had a .22 LR pistol with me with normal rounds loaded (not blanks). I fired no shots around the quail as there were some tractors around and a home nearby as well. When we got into the hills, I would let the dog be out running in front of me (50 - 150 yards) and would fire a shot. Sometimes he would look in my direction if all he was doing was running, other times he would give no reaction at all when he was running hard or extremely focused on something (scent usually). I probably fired a total of 25 rounds as we hiked up to the rim. I was hoping for no reaction ever, but he did look at me a couple of times. When he did, I just kept walking and he would resume what he was doing (although he did change direction after looking at me on a couple of the shots). He did not seem afraid (kept his tail high and seemed fine, but he did react to a few of the rounds as I described, probably 5-7 out of the 25). When he flushed the chukar I was about 50 - 75 yards from him and fired off 2 - 3 quick rounds as he chased with no reaction from him at all.

I really like the dog and would like to have a good summer and many hunting seasons with him coming up. I am trying to stay out of his way when we're out like we were today, but as a rookie pointer trainer I am sure that I do and say more than I should. I really want this dog to work out and would like to know some general thoughts on what you would do from here. The reality is that I can get him on quail in farm ground pretty easily, but it is typically near homes, dogs, and other distractions. Also, this dog will be trudging the chukar hills with me, and it's tough to get him on those wild chukar very regularly (I try to get out in the hills once a week).

Lastly, regarding my training, I will be purchasing some homing pigeons and will have a steady supply of those going in the next few weeks. The dog has never had an e-collar on and is not good enough with his commands yet to start using one (especially for a rookie like me that has never used one). I am not comfortable shooting a shotgun over him yet as I've only had him 2 weeks and don't know exactly how he was introduced to the gun. The previous owner said he started with cap guns and worked up. He also worked with the guys from the pointer club in our area although I don't know if they shot over him there. Like I said previously, he said that he has shot a few birds over this dog with no problems (I am taking his word on this as he seems to be a very stand up guy). I want to make sure that I don't make this dog gun-shy as he did not hunt much with him this year and I obviously did not see how he reacted to the shotgun.

What are your thoughts on how I should proceed with his training: Specifically with continuing working with the gun (or not for now), pigeon work, commands I should be teaching (mainly "come", "fetch", "heel", and a little "whoa" currently) and how to get him pointing those dang wild birds?! I apologize for the long post and look forward to your responses (make them as long as you'd like as payback)! I have learned much on here an look forward to learning more.
Last edited by shaneroyce on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Sharon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:11 pm

The scent was overwhelming so he flushed them up. Not a big deal ; he will learn.
What training plan are you going to follow?
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:27 pm

I read alot on steadywithstyle.com and Delmar Smith's book as well. I am thinking of getting the perfect start/perfect finish dvd's. I have mainly been getting the pup comfortable with me and getting him out and running a little. What training program do you recommend for a beginner?

User avatar
jeff gruennert
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: southern wi.

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by jeff gruennert » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:38 pm

I got my EP in a simlar situation and in no way am I an expert but this is what worked for me. I used a pro trainer about once a month for about a year. It was kind of a piano lesson type deal i would go and show him the progress we were making and he would either tell me i needed to keep working on something or if things seemed to be going to his satisfaction he would give us a new phase of training to work on. I think we spent more time training me than the dog.

User avatar
ymepointer
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: The Pacific Northwest

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by ymepointer » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:00 pm

He sounds like he is doing just fine, get him on as many wild birds as you can and he will soon figure out he can't catch them and will start locking up on them.... :D

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:11 pm

Sharon wrote:The scent was overwhelming so he flushed them up. Not a big deal ; he will learn.
What training plan are you going to follow?
What Sharon said. On the chukar, they were probably running and he was tracking. He hasn't learned yet how close he can push them before the flush.

Find one program and follow it. Smith and Hickox are both good.

Sounds like a very nice dog to me. Congratulations!
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

User avatar
mudhunter
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:37 am
Location: PA

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by mudhunter » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:58 pm

At a year old I would not let the dog chase anymore. I would break the dog using pen-raised birds and then bring him back into the wild birds and reinforce the training. Your at the perfect time for it, the dog should be old enough to take formal training, the wild birds should be getting ready to nest and therefor left alone soon. By the time the dog is broke on pen raised birds you should have lots of young wild birds to reinforce everything you spent all this spring/summer teaching the dog.

User avatar
glk7243
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 9:58 am

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by glk7243 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:16 pm

Pointing wild birds and pointing pigeons are entirely different. Plus quail and chukars are a lot different. Plus scenting conditions vary a lot. Young dogs need wild bird exposure to figure it all out. Keep running that dog on them wild birds every chance you get until they start setting. Those pigeons won't teach them how to find, point, and handle wild birds. You can get them steady with them but that is all. But that is just my lowly opinion from hunting chukars for 35 years.
Here is a pic of my 7 mo old the other day pointing chukars. I did do a couple intros of pigeons with her at a young age. But the reason she can find and point wild birds is about 300 wild bird contacts in the last few months. Have fun and enjoy the ride. It is like any trip you have never taken before. You just do not know exactly how long it will take you to get there.
Image

User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:37 pm

glk7243 wrote:Pointing wild birds and pointing pigeons are entirely different. Plus quail and chukars are a lot different. Plus scenting conditions vary a lot. Young dogs need wild bird exposure to figure it all out. Keep running that dog on them wild birds every chance you get until they start setting. Those pigeons won't teach them how to find, point, and handle wild birds. You can get them steady with them but that is all. But that is just my lowly opinion from hunting chukars for 35 years.
Here is a pic of my 7 mo old the other day pointing chukars. I did do a couple intros of pigeons with her at a young age. But the reason she can find and point wild birds is about 300 wild bird contacts in the last few months. Have fun and enjoy the ride. It is like any trip you have never taken before. You just do not know exactly how long it will take you to get there.
Image
Beautiful pup! I definitely need to get him A LOT of wild bird exposure...and will! He's a great pup and I'm having tons of fun. How much steadying do you like to do with pigeons? It sounds like you only did a few intros and worry about steadying things up after a lot of wild bird contacts? My pup was intro'd to pigeons quite a bit last summer and a couple of times on wild pheasants this fall. I also put him on a couple pigeons when I first got him and did not let him chase. It seems like most people are in the "let him chase" camp and worry about steadying him up later, or should I be working on steadying him up while I'm getting him on wild birds too? Are launchers necessary at this point for any pigeon work? Most recommendations for now are "come", and lot's of wild bird contacts (wild bird contacts are easier said than done...particularly as we get close to the nesting season and quit chasing them for a bit). Thoughts?

rinker
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:01 am

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by rinker » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:54 am

It sounds to me like you have got a great young dog and a great situation in which to work him. I will tell you what I would do with him but I know that you will get a lot of different opinions.

-I would quit randomly shooting around him. I would fire a gun only during bird work.
-I would not mess around with pen raised game birds at all. It sounds like you have easy access to lots of wild birds and I just don't see any reason for pen raised birds.
-I would do some pigeon work over the summer. I would do this primarily to keep him interested and fired up, not to completely break him. I would shoot a few pigeons for him, I would do this to keep him fired up and to convince him that the sound of a gun brings good things.
-I would do some basic yard work including some work on whoa with an ecollar around the flank.
-In the late summer or early fall when you can start going to the field again I would turn him loose with the flank collar on. I would let him find birds, if he points them that is great but he probably won't. When he knocks them and starts to chase, let him chase a short distance and then start tapping him with the flank ecollar until you get him stopped. When you get him stopped, go to him, fire your gun and release him. The goal would be to make the chases shorter and shorter. Some where in this process he should start pointing some birds, try to get in front of him and flush, if he breaks and knocks the birds just get him stopped. I would not worry about rushing this process. I also would not get caught up in shooting birds this next season. I wouldn't shoot birds that weren't pointed and you might want to bring a buddy along to do the gunning so you can watch the dog.
-This is not exactly what I do with my dogs but I do not have easy access to an abundance of wild birds.

User avatar
RoostersMom
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1754
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: North Central Missouri

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:34 am

I like the PS/PF series by Perfection Kennel - I use that program from start to finish with my dogs. You are lucky to have access to wild birds - use them as much as is possible IMO. Nothing teaches the dog like real exposure. He's going to learn not to bust them on his own and it will take time.

User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:06 am

Thanks for all of the advice. It is extremely helpful. I took him out again a couple of days ago and got him into a bunch of quail again. He was busting a lot of birds and overrunning lots as well and then he spun around and locked up on point for about 5 seconds. After about 5 seconds, 2-3 quail flew up about 10 feet in front of him. He chased and then came back to hunt as there were quail everywhere. I let him run and bust some more birds and just followed him and let him have a good time.

When it was time to go, I was walking him along a dirt road back to my truck, and he got pretty birdy and pointed a huge brush pile. He was solidly on point, but his tail was wagging just a little as though he was not quite sure if there was a bird there. I assumed that he was pointing something other than a bird or some older scent. He held that point for about a minute with out moving anything except that dang tail was slowly wagging! I did not say a word. He was on the check cord and I just let him stand, I did not stroke his tail to try and steady it as I did not think a bird was there and wanted to be out of the equation. After about a minute, a single quail flushed on the other side of this heavy brush. He watched the flush and started into the brush, but I held him and did not let him chase. It was time to go anyway (my wife was waiting to be taken out to dinner).

As I was driving out of the area, I saw a covey of about 50-75 quail in the brush about 20 yards off the road. I drove just a ways past them and then uncrated the dog, put a check cord on him, and started to walk back toward the covey into the wind. We were not quite crosswind to them yet when at about 20 yards he locked up TIGHT! He was on the check cord, and we were a little above them. The wind was blowing in our general direction, but I am not sure if he sight or scent pointed them (again, were not quite crosswind from them and a few of them could be seen). He held that point tight and intense and I slowly stroked his back saying "good boy". After quite some time (a minute or more), he started to lean forward just a little. The covey had not moved as I could see a couple of birds. I checked him up just a little. He then took a small step or two forward and the covey erupted. He tried to chase, but I checked him up and let him watch the birds flush. After they were gone, I lead him down to where they had been and he had a ball hunting around on the check cord. We loaded up and headed home.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on a couple of things. First, both days at this particular spot, the wind was high! I would guess in the 25-30 mph range this last time. Also, this particular area is near a cattle feed lot, and there are many distractions (cattle, farming equipment, barns, etc.). At 12 months and him being green, are those distractions an issue right now?

It sounds like these wild bird contacts are critical at this point from the posts and pm's I'm getting. Should I be doing pigeon work in conjunction with it, or wait and focus on that after more wild bird contacts?

Should I be teaching "whoa" very heavy in the yard at this point?

Is it time for the e-collar (he knows come, but when he is amped up, you might as well assume he's never heard it)?

Should I continue to let him chase, or is it time to start steadying him up on pigeons (I cannot control that on wild birds, but could on pigeon work - I just cannot duplicate that on wild birds when he is not check corded - another reason to wonder about the e-collar I guess)?

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you all.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Sharon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:04 pm

error. Sorry.
Last edited by Sharon on Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Sharon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:08 pm

shaneroyce wrote:or moreIt sounds like these wild bird contacts are critical at this point from the posts and pm's I'm getting. Should I be doing pigeon work in conjunction with it, or wait and focus on that after more wild bird contacts?

Should I be teaching "whoa" very heavy in the yard at this point?

  • Is it time for the e-collar (he knows come, but when he is amped up, you might as well assume he's never heard it)?
Should I continue to let him chase, or is it time to start steadying him up on pigeons (I cannot control that on wild birds, but could on pigeon work - I just cannot duplicate that on wild birds when he is not check corded - another reason to wonder about the e-collar I guess)?

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you all.
If the dog is not coming when called in the field then an e collar would be useful. Make sure you know how to condition the dog to the e-collar properly.You won't be using it around wild bird activity.When to use the collar and when not to use a collar is a whole chapter on its own. If i was starting over, I would buy a DT 2005T/B. It's expensive but worth every penny.

PS I am not an expert.
Last edited by Sharon on Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:57 pm

He comes a lot of the times in the field, just not 100% of the time. I don't want to ask him to come unless I can enforce it. I guess an e-collar is an option, or only calling him when I get him running back towards me (like when I change direction 180 degrees) or when he's in a position that I know he will come. Thanks for the help. I'm having a ton of fun with this pup!

User avatar
Ruffshooter
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 7:28 pm
Location: Maine

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:05 pm

I am a full advocate of wild birds for a dog in their beginings. But once you know the dog points on wild birds has had some unsuccessful chases, returns to hunting etc. Then get off the wild birds. No more birds period till you have all your yard training and commands done. Following a program like Smith, Hickox, or Perfect videos. They will give you the right time to reintroduce birds guns etc. No more chasing either. Your dog already knows it can not catch the birds yet it keeps trying. Your dog already knows what wild birds are. So No more chases, put the brakes on that dog, start formal training. You will transfer all of your new found training methods to different fields with the planted birds then to wild birds.

Sounds like you have a bird dog there he just needs help with focus of his job.

Of course this is all just an opinion.
Have fun and enjoy the ride.

Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

User avatar
birddogger
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3776
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:09 pm
Location: Bunker Hill, IL.

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by birddogger » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:31 pm

Of course this is all just an opinion.
Have fun and enjoy the ride.

Rick
And a good opinion.

Charlie
If you think you can or if you think you can't, you are right either way

User avatar
Gordon Guy
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 632
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:07 pm
Location: Boise Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Gordon Guy » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:50 am

Ruffshooter wrote:I am a full advocate of wild birds for a dog in their beginings. But once you know the dog points on wild birds has had some unsuccessful chases, returns to hunting etc. Then get off the wild birds. No more birds period till you have all your yard training and commands done. Following a program like Smith, Hickox, or Perfect videos. They will give you the right time to reintroduce birds guns etc. No more chasing either. Your dog already knows it can not catch the birds yet it keeps trying. Your dog already knows what wild birds are. So No more chases, put the brakes on that dog, start formal training. You will transfer all of your new found training methods to different fields with the planted birds then to wild birds.

Sounds like you have a bird dog there he just needs help with focus of his job.

Of course this is all just an opinion.
Have fun and enjoy the ride.

Rick
+1
Tom

User avatar
AzDoggin
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: AZ desert

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:21 am

birddogger wrote: And a good opinion.

Charlie
Yup.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by Sharon » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:07 pm

shaneroyce wrote:He comes a lot of the times in the field, just not 100% of the time. I don't want to ask him to come unless I can enforce it. I guess an e-collar is an option, or only calling him when I get him running back towards me (like when I change direction 180 degrees) or when he's in a position that I know he will come. Thanks for the help. I'm having a ton of fun with this pup!
The times he doesn't come could be when the train/car is going by or chasing a deer far away. Keep working on 'come".
Last edited by Sharon on Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
shaneroyce
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm
Location: Southwest Idaho

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by shaneroyce » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:04 pm

Thank you all for your replies. They have been very helpful. I have a very good and well-know English Setter/English Pointer breeder & trainer that lives very close to me. He and I have been talking quite a bit lately, and I am going to lean on him and learn and follow a good program. I will keep you updated on the pup and ask many more questions! I will keep the original posts shorter as well in the future. This one was too long! Thanks again.

phoneman45
Rank: Junior Hunter
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:36 pm
Location: Lexington, Kentucky

Re: A rookie would love to hear your expert thoughts!!!

Post by phoneman45 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:49 pm

Shane,

You answered a few of your own questions with your explanation of what happened. As for the dog you have a winner. A pointer from the Elhew line is perhaps the best you can find. He is only 1 year old. Any birdog will not settle down and be a seasoned hunter until they are four to five years old. They are still a pup up to 2 yrs. He will be as good as your trainer anticipates. He busted your birds because he is young and very excitable and there were so many. He will learn as he matures. Chasing rabbits means he has a good prey drive, just be glad it wasnt deer lol. As for gunfire he is not gunshy but I would not shoot around him unless he is chasing a dummy or bird, just shooting to see his reaction can be a recipe for disaster. Plant some birds and shoot a blank gun as he chases one after a point then you can have a helper shoot planted birds over him while you style him up ( he wont need much of that though ). Have him shoot a light guage (410 or 20) and hit that first bird, he will be fine. Dont expect perfection, he is a baby and he will act like a seasoned campaigner one day and a bum the next. You can work on steading him when he is well started. Make him bird crazy and crazy about you, he will be fine, but remember he will probably suffer from selective hearing disorder. lol good luck

Post Reply