Recommended age to FF

[Dirtysteve]

At what age do you recommend to begin Force Fetching a dog?

[snips]

I like them to be at least a year old. Prefer them to be 1-2 yrs old.

[Ayres]

Easy answer: depends on the dog and when it can handle the pressure.

And it really does, I'm not just trying to be cute. A lot of dogs won't be able to handle the pressure of force training until at least 10 months, some over a year, some over two years, and then some act like they could handle it as soon as their eyes open. First things first, give the dog time to mature and your patience will be rewarded with a much easier time training. Secondly, if you start too soon you'll likely find out, in which time you will either have to continue the training whilst wearing kid gloves or forego the training until the dog matures more.

Several people might reply "I don't/wouldn't until X age" and that's perfectly fine. It is rarely an issue to wait awhile after the dog is mature enough to handle the training. Just remember, though, that there's no X age at which every dog is really ready, just several opinions on an X age whereby most dogs are ready. And, conversely (and remember this is going to be a small number of exceptional cases), just because somebody gives you their X age doesn't mean that a dog won't be ready before that age. It's more of a gamble to cause problems the younger the dog is, though.

My personal opinion on an X age whereby most dogs are, in fact, ready = 1 year.

[original mngsp]

1-2 yrs seems best in my book.

There are some people that will do it as soon as adult teeth come in. I know they say that it will help the bonding, or make a hard head a bit more biddable.

I prefer to let the dog grow into themselves and gain confidence before putting that type of pressure on him. If it's a well bred dog that was brought along well a light trained retrieve will do for most of us as oppossed to the FF that FT retrievers go through.

[gundogguru]

I would go with snips advice she has done FF on a bunch of dogs.

[Wa Chukar Hunter]

that being said I have FF retrieves as young as 6-9 months. The oldest dog I FF was 9 yrs - worked fine too.

[kbobbjr]

I agree with what was stated above in that each dog is different and there is no specific age at which this should be done. I do know that it shouldn't be done before their permanent teeth come in. My dog was FF at 7 months.

[ezzy333]

I wouldn't even consider FF a puppy. It maybe time to think about it after a season of bird hunting abd probably better I would think after two seasons. I don't undwestand the desire to FF a puppy that you don't even know needs it and you sure don't know that till a season or two in the field.

I will do anything I can to insure the pup has the chance to do things on its own before trying to make a robot out of it. What I see happening is some well trained dogs with limited abilities.

Ezzy

[Wagonmaster]

and i am right back to totally agreeing with ezzy. my four year old hunting dog brings them back, swings to heel, and has never been force fetch trained. she was so so at retrieving as a pup, when one day, when she was about a year and a half, we had her out to the game farm, my oldest son and I. we shot a bird that she pointed, she ran on the flush, when she got there it was still flapping, and she looked a little guilty, like is this what i am supposed to do. son started running up to get the bird and i said no, back away. so we both did, and she, just reacting, immediately brought the bird all the way to hand. of course she got alot of praise for that, and has brought them to hand ever after. not all go that way. i had her mother force fetch trained. but better to try.

[snips]

There is a reason I posted the age of 1-2 yrs old. This is the age where a dog is reaching adulthood and can handle the pressures of FF training. It is also the time a dog can take Force the best. Once a dog gets 3,4,5 yrs old he may not take to pain without retaliation. Also the longer a dog does it wrong the harder it may be to change his habits. This is not true of all dogs of course, but some. That is the reason I posted to Jobird to train the HOLD and not the Force part. Training HOLD does not require any ear pinch, just teaches a dog to hold on command.

[volraider]

Brenda,

baring any hangup's how long does it take you to FF a dog? How long should it take?

Thanks
Brian

[snips]

5-7 weeks

[LSKGSPs]

Always an interesting topic as there are so many really valid viewpoints. I'll get to my real interest in a sec. but first some thumbnails of my humble opinions:

1. Not all dogs need to be FF. Not all owners need to FF their dogs
All dogs need to be FF. All owners should FF their dogs.

LOL...that's pretty much it. But seriously, sometimes FF training takes on a life of its own beyond the real needs of the dog or the owner. There have been so many exactly "right on" posts that to a young, or old new owner, the "right on" points only serve to confuse because they may not have the experience to pick up on the nuances of the dog that more experienced members have.

One.....Snips mentioned it in her last post..."Pain." For those who may be a little unfamiliar with what is involved with FF...there is pain. That is something that some owners do not want for their dog. Depending on the trainer and technique used as well as the dog, the degree of pain may be more or less.

Two....If you do not want to compete in Field events where retreiving is required you are much better off spending quality time with your dog gently trying to teach/praise it to retreive for you. Give the dog plenty of time and gentle help to get the idea across. So what if the dog does not bring the bird back to hand every time. There are no judges out there with you ready to deduct from your score. Heck, long ago and far away I was dern thankful if my dog just found the dang bird for me, never mind bringing it back. And we had a ton of fun doing that.

Three...OK, you're going to compete. IMHO, if that is the case FF your dog. On the other thread I set out the words a fabulous trainer told me about FF tng. If I were better at this board I would go get them and repost, but I'm not...in short he said don't trust a win to a chance good retrieve.....FF the dog.

Four.....My "hat" is off to the non-pro owner who attempts to FF his own dog.....IF THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL. We speak of bonds that develop between dogs and owners and how important and satisfying those are. Not one of us would trade those bonds for a King's Ransom. FF tng is so complex from when to start...when to slow down...when to pinch harder...when to turn the intensity on the collar up.....when to really back off.....etc. In short, I can think of no aspect of training that will more destroy the bond between man and dog than FF tng done wrong.

Five.....If you have made the decision to FF train you dog consider the above and ask yourself this: Do I want to be the one inflicting the pain on my dog? (Again, to those of you who have been able to do this on your own.....My "hat" again comes off to you. As for me, I never FF my own dogs. I have a trusted pro do it. A pro that understands and has seen what can go wrong..........and how to avoid it or fix it. (Just my opinion)

OK.............Now my real question and request of explanation for I'll bet a lot of members. Very often in this thread we have read of the need to not start or consider FF tng until the dog is ready to handle the pressure. I agree. But I think there may be many members who ask the following:

"What do I look for to know if my dog is ready to handle the pressure?"
"How do I know"...............In short, with all the knowledge and experience here......could you all share what we should be looking for in terms of what you look for in a candidate for FF Training.

Thanks a ton for taking the time to clarify this a little.

LSK

[snips]

I posted at least a year old, but i reality I like to get a dog pretty sound on their birds before FFing. Most dogs I get in for formal training I will tell people to bring them in at aroung a yr old if they have had a proper start here or with them. It also depends on what the owner wants out of their dog on the decision to FF. If I know the dog is bold on their birds, and the person definetly wants and needs the dog FFed them I will occasionally start the dog on the table after around a month of work on launchers. If a dog is going to be a hunting dog I will encourage as much of a natural retrieve as possible, let them hunt a season and bring them back in the spring for FF. I had around 5 setters I was working out of 1 litter. Out of these 5 I got 2 retrieving sufficently on their own. I ff one at the time of training, 1 I sent home to get bolder on birds and get a season of hunting, mainly because the dog needed to show more bird desire. I just FFed him and his lack of desire still made it hard to get him FF. Each dog is different, but I basically like to see a dog that loves birds, as a desire to please with a good attitude toward work and training, and does ot mind carrying a bird around. All these factors help in making a dog easy to FF, unfortunatly if a dog shows all these attributes they will many times be gotten to retrieve on their own. There are many dogs that show lots of natural retrieve on tennis balls or bumpers but just don`t like feathers in their mouth. I had one such dog that was so sickened by holding a bird he would slobber profusly every time I put a bird in his mouth to hold. I needed about 3 birds everytime I had a session with him because he soaked them so bad. Once he got over the sickness of it in his mouth he made a great retriever. Some people are worried about FFing a soft dog, if the bird desire is there, many times I prefer a soft dog, as they are very quick to respond. So their is nothing set in stone, but whether they are FFed at the time of their initial training or cme back after a season they are still in that 1-2 range theirabouts.

[LSKGSPs]

Good thoughts Brends. Thanks.

Now let me see if I got it right. You put the dog on the table, hook it up, handler does one spin around on left foot. If dog jumps off table, snaps bar, draws blood from handler and stands on ground in a perfect "stop to flush" the dog is ready!!!....Hehehe...I could not resist. Glad you were not hurt.

Congrats on Fritz.