I have a GSP names "Jackson" who I am considering testing in the Natural Ability test this April in Maryland (Potomac Chapter). I am new to training and have a few questions in regards to the test. The pup will be 9 months at test time.
The major concern I have is the water phase. The temps are really low here in Northern Virginia and having a pup in cold water doesnt seem like a good way to train. He did have water intro when a small pup and has swam at a very young age but with the cold water how do you train for this? I am working on keeping him excited for bumpers and he gets fun bumpers everytime we train so he loves them so I am trying to keep cultivating that passion for retrieving. I know dog doesnt have to retrieve but getting him excited about the object will help possibly overcome the cold water? What things can help have him love the water?
What is the best training method for the tracking phase? I have heard many dogs have issues "breaking" cover to stay on track. Would it be best to start walking through the high cover and having pup follow me or just try to drag birds through it and see how it goes?
Thanks
NAVHDA NA test help
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Vaoutdoors42
- Rank: Junior Hunter
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- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:37 am
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Re: NAVHDA NA test help
Let's address the water end of the test first - theoretically in a "Natural Ability" test, there oughtn't be any training to begin with. (Natural ability - remember? - not the Trained Ability Test. I know NAVHDA's system's been ginned by experienced handlers with "precocious" pups.)
But as you're a first-timer, it behooves you to step back with a 9-month-old pup until the next test you can run after the water's warmed. You can discount this advice if your pup's entering the water of its own volition at this time of year, and enthusiastic about it - many do and some can't even run past a mud puddle before they're in it and getting themselves wet.) But you really don't want to push the issue of water in winter with a pup - or push the issue of water training with any retriever or retrieving gundog.
The tracking is pretty elementary to train for - if you think your pup is "cover-shy" start taking into cover on walks and also throw a bumper or two into cover.
Good luck - and trust me, good discretion will pay off for you down the road with your having a working gundog, not a test dog.
MG
But as you're a first-timer, it behooves you to step back with a 9-month-old pup until the next test you can run after the water's warmed. You can discount this advice if your pup's entering the water of its own volition at this time of year, and enthusiastic about it - many do and some can't even run past a mud puddle before they're in it and getting themselves wet.) But you really don't want to push the issue of water in winter with a pup - or push the issue of water training with any retriever or retrieving gundog.
The tracking is pretty elementary to train for - if you think your pup is "cover-shy" start taking into cover on walks and also throw a bumper or two into cover.
Good luck - and trust me, good discretion will pay off for you down the road with your having a working gundog, not a test dog.
MG
Re: NAVHDA NA test help
When I start a pup on tracking, I pick a spot which has short grass alongside long grass. Work with the wind blowing from the short grass to the long grass, so that the pup will be tracking in a crosswind. Start with a dead pigeon. Put a 3 to 5' string on the pigeon's leg. Pick a spot in the short grass about 2' from the edge of the long grass. Pluck a blob of feathers from the pigeon breast and put them on the spot you have chosen. Rub the pigeon on the spot to leave a lot of scent there, then holding the end of the string, drag the pigeon 15' in the short grass, working parallel to the edge of the long grass. The entire track will be 2' from the long grass. Remove the string from the pigeon leg and leave the bird in plain sight.
Bring your pup on leash up to the departure point. Leave the leash on, but grab the pup's collar by putting your fingers on the back of his neck under the collar. Now calmly push your pup's head down to the track departure point marked by the pile of feathers. Keep holding the collar, and point to the pile of feathers with your other hand. Encourage the pup and use your tracking command (track, dead bird, find it or whatever you choose), sound excited. Be patient, and give the pup time to get a noseful of scent, then wak the pup slowly along the track (on leash). If he leaves the track to begin a field search, bring him back and indicate the track to him again. Give praise and let him hold the bird when he finds it.
After two or three repetitions in the same place, leave the task alone for a couple of days. Pick a similar spot and make the drag longer, say 30 feet. Repeat it all on leash for the next two or three tracks. Soon you will drop the leash and only take one or two steps along the track to get him started, but let him drag the leash in case you need to redirect him to the track.
Now you can lay a track and at the end, turn into the long grass. Leave the bird in the long grass about 1' in from the edge, and press the grass down (use the pigeon to do this) so the pup will have lots of scent, and easily see the bird. He will overrun the end of the track at first, but let him have time to figure it out. As he gets good at this, make the track go farther into the long grass and then work a few curves into it. The pup should work in a crosswind or with the wind from behind him to make it easier for him to track instead of lifting his head and doing a field search.
Make the track departure a ritual which is always the same. Hand through the collar, push his head down and be still for 5 or 10 seconds until he commits to the scentpile and is forcused on it. Same command every time. Calmness is crucial, never run to the the track departure point.
On test day, the judges will look for focus on the track. This is a test of focus and obedience and calmness at the departure is the key. Let him drag a leash so you can redirect him easily if you need to. Use different cover and different birds for practice, then use a live pheasant two or three times in the two weeks before the test. Don't practice it to death.
If you go into cover your pup will too. If you only stay out in the short stuff, your pup will as well. As for water, the same is true. If it's too cold for you to walk in, I would wait for a better day. Don't train it to death, and let him have fun in the water.
Get in touch with your local NAVHDA chapter for access to birds and find someone who will mentor you. Likely they will have their annual chapter meeting soon. Attend and get to know your 50 new friends. Have a great time with your wonderful new pup.
Bring your pup on leash up to the departure point. Leave the leash on, but grab the pup's collar by putting your fingers on the back of his neck under the collar. Now calmly push your pup's head down to the track departure point marked by the pile of feathers. Keep holding the collar, and point to the pile of feathers with your other hand. Encourage the pup and use your tracking command (track, dead bird, find it or whatever you choose), sound excited. Be patient, and give the pup time to get a noseful of scent, then wak the pup slowly along the track (on leash). If he leaves the track to begin a field search, bring him back and indicate the track to him again. Give praise and let him hold the bird when he finds it.
After two or three repetitions in the same place, leave the task alone for a couple of days. Pick a similar spot and make the drag longer, say 30 feet. Repeat it all on leash for the next two or three tracks. Soon you will drop the leash and only take one or two steps along the track to get him started, but let him drag the leash in case you need to redirect him to the track.
Now you can lay a track and at the end, turn into the long grass. Leave the bird in the long grass about 1' in from the edge, and press the grass down (use the pigeon to do this) so the pup will have lots of scent, and easily see the bird. He will overrun the end of the track at first, but let him have time to figure it out. As he gets good at this, make the track go farther into the long grass and then work a few curves into it. The pup should work in a crosswind or with the wind from behind him to make it easier for him to track instead of lifting his head and doing a field search.
Make the track departure a ritual which is always the same. Hand through the collar, push his head down and be still for 5 or 10 seconds until he commits to the scentpile and is forcused on it. Same command every time. Calmness is crucial, never run to the the track departure point.
On test day, the judges will look for focus on the track. This is a test of focus and obedience and calmness at the departure is the key. Let him drag a leash so you can redirect him easily if you need to. Use different cover and different birds for practice, then use a live pheasant two or three times in the two weeks before the test. Don't practice it to death.
If you go into cover your pup will too. If you only stay out in the short stuff, your pup will as well. As for water, the same is true. If it's too cold for you to walk in, I would wait for a better day. Don't train it to death, and let him have fun in the water.
Get in touch with your local NAVHDA chapter for access to birds and find someone who will mentor you. Likely they will have their annual chapter meeting soon. Attend and get to know your 50 new friends. Have a great time with your wonderful new pup.
Re: NAVHDA NA test help
Ah, water: It can make or break a score in the NA, but is too often overlooked beforehand. Here's a little story:
I picked up my GWP pup in the summer of 2010. I hunted him as hard as I dared that fall with absolutely no expectations. I made things "fun" for him, and unless he was in danger, kept all negativity to a minimum. It worked out wonderfully, and he managed to point and retrieve many, many birds until our last hunt on Christmas ,orning.
Even with all the exposure, he still hated water. Loathed it. Despised it. When I'd take him on walks or runs around the neighborhood, he'd do everything imaginable to avoid even the shallowest puddle. Duck hunting was hopeless. Even a thrashing duck mere feet away was not enough to encourage him into the briny deep.
And don't get me started on baths.
For the longest time, I thought it was going to be hopeless. So, over the winter, I forgot about it. No point in worrying about something you can't do anything about until the spring thaw, right? We ran and trained as much as we could, but spent most of the time just figuring each other out. Did lots of OB stuff, and I socialized the bejeezus out of him.
Then last spring, he had an epiphany.
The swollen Red River of the North once again threatened to spill its banks and drown the Fargo area. On the morning the Army Corp of Engineers was to install clay dikes near my home, I took Remy on a walk to check out the river and see it rage.
We walked down to the park, which was completely flooded save the vehicle entrance. We walked down until we could go no further, and just sat there. I honestly wasn't paying all that much attention to Remy, but before I knew it he'd leaped into the water and jumped onto a floating iceberg wedged about five feet from shore. I was stunned. The water could not have been much warmer than freezing, but he didn't seem to mind. It was then that I figured out what caused him to make such an uncustomary reaction: ducks. Migrating mallards had found their way to this little backwater of the red, and were quacking, flying and splashing about in a frenzy of spring love.
It was too much for Remy to take.
He rared back on his haunches, and before I could utter a syllable, leapt into the frigid water. In shocked amazement, I watched my less-than-a-year-old pup do a Michael Phelps and race out to the nearest flock of ducks. They took flight when he was about 20 yards away, and a quick "come" sent him back in my direction.
Not wanting to discourage this behavior (even though I was a bit worried about him getting carried away in some unforeseen current) I praised him, leashed him, then headed for home.
From that day, Remy has been an absolute water nut.
So what's this say for your dog? Maybe just wait it out. See what it will do in different circumstances. Don't put too much pressure on it to perform, but praise it whenever it does get its toes wet. If you can get it around ducks, do it! I know it worked for Remy.
Hope you NA test goes well. If at all possible, get together with someone who knows what they're doing and do a dry run. It helped me a LOT!
I picked up my GWP pup in the summer of 2010. I hunted him as hard as I dared that fall with absolutely no expectations. I made things "fun" for him, and unless he was in danger, kept all negativity to a minimum. It worked out wonderfully, and he managed to point and retrieve many, many birds until our last hunt on Christmas ,orning.
Even with all the exposure, he still hated water. Loathed it. Despised it. When I'd take him on walks or runs around the neighborhood, he'd do everything imaginable to avoid even the shallowest puddle. Duck hunting was hopeless. Even a thrashing duck mere feet away was not enough to encourage him into the briny deep.
And don't get me started on baths.
For the longest time, I thought it was going to be hopeless. So, over the winter, I forgot about it. No point in worrying about something you can't do anything about until the spring thaw, right? We ran and trained as much as we could, but spent most of the time just figuring each other out. Did lots of OB stuff, and I socialized the bejeezus out of him.
Then last spring, he had an epiphany.
The swollen Red River of the North once again threatened to spill its banks and drown the Fargo area. On the morning the Army Corp of Engineers was to install clay dikes near my home, I took Remy on a walk to check out the river and see it rage.
We walked down to the park, which was completely flooded save the vehicle entrance. We walked down until we could go no further, and just sat there. I honestly wasn't paying all that much attention to Remy, but before I knew it he'd leaped into the water and jumped onto a floating iceberg wedged about five feet from shore. I was stunned. The water could not have been much warmer than freezing, but he didn't seem to mind. It was then that I figured out what caused him to make such an uncustomary reaction: ducks. Migrating mallards had found their way to this little backwater of the red, and were quacking, flying and splashing about in a frenzy of spring love.
It was too much for Remy to take.
He rared back on his haunches, and before I could utter a syllable, leapt into the frigid water. In shocked amazement, I watched my less-than-a-year-old pup do a Michael Phelps and race out to the nearest flock of ducks. They took flight when he was about 20 yards away, and a quick "come" sent him back in my direction.
Not wanting to discourage this behavior (even though I was a bit worried about him getting carried away in some unforeseen current) I praised him, leashed him, then headed for home.
From that day, Remy has been an absolute water nut.
So what's this say for your dog? Maybe just wait it out. See what it will do in different circumstances. Don't put too much pressure on it to perform, but praise it whenever it does get its toes wet. If you can get it around ducks, do it! I know it worked for Remy.
Hope you NA test goes well. If at all possible, get together with someone who knows what they're doing and do a dry run. It helped me a LOT!
Re: NAVHDA NA test help
You've received some great advice. Your dog is young enough that you can wait until your chapter's fall test, which will give you the hot summer months to allow the dog to decide that water is a good thing. As recommended above, get him onto some ducks, as that will probably entice him to throw caution to the wind and jump right in.
The track advice was also spot on. I'm too cheap to use live birds for track training, so I freeze a rooster and thaw it for training sessions. I attach a dog leash to the bird's legs, and let the bird touch the ground about every third step. I'll put a sharp turn or two in the track, and enter into some heavier cover. When you initiate the track, grab the dog's collar and take it to the feather pile. Get it interested in the feathers, issue whatever command you use (I use "dead bird") then gently "bowl" the dog forward by pushing it in the direction of the track. Once you release the dog, stand tall and silent, and focus on the spot where the bird is laying. (If you issue any additional commands during the test, you can lose a point.) The dog will learn to key off of you, and the direction in which you are looking. Set up your tracks in a variety of cover and terrain, so that your dog will be ready for whatever cover and terrain you find in your test.
You can start off with shorter drags, with no turns, in lighter cover, and allowing the bird to make more frequent contact with the ground. As you progress, you can make things a little more challenging. I set up tracks maybe once or twice per week leading up to the test, no need to overdo it.
Good luck, and have fun with your dog.....
The track advice was also spot on. I'm too cheap to use live birds for track training, so I freeze a rooster and thaw it for training sessions. I attach a dog leash to the bird's legs, and let the bird touch the ground about every third step. I'll put a sharp turn or two in the track, and enter into some heavier cover. When you initiate the track, grab the dog's collar and take it to the feather pile. Get it interested in the feathers, issue whatever command you use (I use "dead bird") then gently "bowl" the dog forward by pushing it in the direction of the track. Once you release the dog, stand tall and silent, and focus on the spot where the bird is laying. (If you issue any additional commands during the test, you can lose a point.) The dog will learn to key off of you, and the direction in which you are looking. Set up your tracks in a variety of cover and terrain, so that your dog will be ready for whatever cover and terrain you find in your test.
You can start off with shorter drags, with no turns, in lighter cover, and allowing the bird to make more frequent contact with the ground. As you progress, you can make things a little more challenging. I set up tracks maybe once or twice per week leading up to the test, no need to overdo it.
Good luck, and have fun with your dog.....
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Vaoutdoors42
- Rank: Junior Hunter
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- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:37 am
- Location: Manassas, VA
Re: NAVHDA NA test help
Thanks for the great advice everyone...I think I will wait till the fall test.
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RayGubernat
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Re: NAVHDA NA test help
VAoutdoors -
I can't help you with your training question.
However, I did want to mention that the Delmarva Chaper is scheduled to have a test in May and another in October. The May date might allow you to do some water work in reasonable conditions and the October date will certainly allow you plenty of time to do water work under fairly pleasant conditions.
I know a bunch of the Delmarva Navhda folks an they are good people. Petersburg, DE is a bit more of a ride for you, and one more bridge to cross, but it isn't all that far actually. Probably about two hours or so away. The C & R center is actually a pretty nice place to come and play with dogs.
RayG
I can't help you with your training question.
However, I did want to mention that the Delmarva Chaper is scheduled to have a test in May and another in October. The May date might allow you to do some water work in reasonable conditions and the October date will certainly allow you plenty of time to do water work under fairly pleasant conditions.
I know a bunch of the Delmarva Navhda folks an they are good people. Petersburg, DE is a bit more of a ride for you, and one more bridge to cross, but it isn't all that far actually. Probably about two hours or so away. The C & R center is actually a pretty nice place to come and play with dogs.
RayG