Dummy launcher/intro to gunfire

gspgunner · Post by **gspgunner** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:09 am

I had posted in the equipment section that I was looking for a used DT Systems dummy launcher. Well got one last night at Bass Pro. Took my 9 month old Brittany/Springer Spaniel, Abbey, out this morning and introduced her to it. I got the green (light) loads for the launcher. I have been working with a canvas dummy and she has been doing wonderful with her retrieves. Not perfect but she is coming along nicely. Anyway, I was thrilled when I launched the first dummy and after she marked it retrieved it without any hesitation. She wasn't fazed by the gun shot. Launched 3 more with the same results. Man was I happy

. I have never been able to tell of my training progression on here, so thought I would share it with people that would appreciate it. Any tips or comments are appreciated.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:04 pm

It's always great when training goes according to the plan. It makes up for all those times when it doesn't go ....................
Sounds you have a very capable dog. Enjoy.
( Be careful though. Just because pup doesn't blink at the launcher noise, doesn't mean you can skip any gun introduction steps.)

gspgunner · Post by **gspgunner** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:04 pm

Oh I'm not going to skip any gun intro steps. I wanted to get her acclamated to the the sound of a gun shot and the falling "bird". She is an amazing pup. I have some big dreams for her.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:04 pm

I've been thinking about this and I don't know that it will gain you much. Those things work great for training retriever's if you don't have an assistent down range to throw birds/bumper's and fire a gun but I'm not so sure about pointing dogs. I think you'd be better off with a remote trap and blank gun.

gspgunner · Post by **gspgunner** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:38 pm

Thanks for the tip. I definetly work on getting some remote launchers and a blank gun. Money is a big issue and I unfortunately train by myself.

PaPaBear_tx · Post by **PaPaBear_tx** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:01 am

Same question to everyone. Which would you get first for training a 6 month GSP, a blank gun or a dummy launcher? Thanks for any information.

Nutmeg247 · Post by **Nutmeg247** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:41 am

PaPaBear_tx wrote:Same question to everyone. Which would you get first for training a 6 month GSP, a blank gun or a dummy launcher? Thanks for any information.

Personally as regards intro to gunfire, dummy launchers are pretty loud. Primer poppers are a lot quieter, and you can avoid getting a blank gun that way.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:25 pm

I have been doing some steady to shot work with the dt launcher as a blank gun, the yellows are loud. Its a bit awkward to set it off and have the collar controller handy, but it's doable and it gives a bit of multi task to the launcher unit. I do want to transition to a shotgun and blanks since the dog does know the difference, but it was a start.

BTW, since budget is an issue, converting a manual pigeon launcher to remote is pretty cheap (30$ or so) and easy if your at all handy. You should be able to search out the documents here, the original document uses 2 walkie talkies but there is a second floating around that uses cheap remote sender/receiver pairs. If you can't find them PM me, I think I have the PDF's handy and I could e-mail them to you.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:12 pm

Blank Gun. There is no need for a dummy launcher at all in this process. Maybe for retrievers, but I see limited application to pointing dogs.

You use birds for gun intro. Dead birds. Get the Perfect Start DVD, it has an awesome gun intro section. Has worked like a charm for my last and current 8 dogs, GSP's, EP's and Vizsla (and Chessie too).

PaPaBear_tx · Post by **PaPaBear_tx** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:46 pm

Thanks for the response. I will go with the blank gun.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:31 pm

I agree, no need for a dummy launcher. I'd get the blank gun. To get the pup started you can use a shotgun. Take an mty shell and remove the primer. take a 14" drill and drill it out to the bottom of the pocket. New primer will slip in with your fingers and a knock on the side of the rim will pop it out. Very quiet. From there move to a 22LR . use a rifle. Hold the muzzle about 4" off the ground and fire. Louder than the shotgun primer but well muffled. As the pup is comfortable, start raising the muzzle and it will get louder. Anything you do that get's your dog to where you want it, works.

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:20 pm

I use my dummy launcher all the time. My dog was steady through wing, shot and fall the first time we shot a bird over her at 11 months because of our work with the launcher. Her intro to the gun was also easy as our launcher was like a small cannon. In the beginning I had someone else shoot the launcher while I handled the dog. I consider it one of the best training tools I own. Plus it shoots marks further than I can throw so the dogs learn to search further out for a long shot bird. The dogs love it.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:18 am

launchers can be used as a positive reward as well as a retrieving tool. I have never had a problem using them when done correctly.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:42 am

Let me clarify. I don't use objects for retrieve other than birds, so I don't feel like I have a use for a dummy launcher. If you're having the dog retrieve things other than birds, then I can see a utility for the dummy launcher.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:11 am

Since you aren't handling a pointer onto a blind retrieve or working very long marks, I don't think using a launcher will do anything for it. You don't need to stretch a pointers marks out like you would a retriever. Bumpers exist so you can train drills and concepts into dogs cheaper than using a bunch of birds all the time. Since bumpers offer no value to a pointer because the bird always comes from in front of it and few people ever train a pointer to handle on a blind, I don't see any benefit to a launcher other than parlor tricks. Might increase retrieve desire a little, but I'd rather use the money for a launcher and birds and make a complete process for a pointer to practice with.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:26 pm

Bluesky2012 wrote:Since you aren't handling a pointer onto a blind retrieve or working very long marks, I don't think using a launcher will do anything for it. You don't need to stretch a pointers marks out like you would a retriever. Bumpers exist so you can train drills and concepts into dogs cheaper than using a bunch of birds all the time. Since bumpers offer no value to a pointer because the bird always comes from in front of it and few people ever train a pointer to handle on a blind, I don't see any benefit to a launcher other than parlor tricks. Might increase retrieve desire a little, but I'd rather use the money for a launcher and birds and make a complete process for a pointer to practice with.

You obviously don't train for versatility. Yes, some of us train Versatile breeds to do more than point. Blinds have nothing to do with it though.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:48 pm

With a launcher you have a blank gun(don't put a bumper on) and a launcher, with a blank gun you just have a blank gun. The launcher is usable for the dog's entire life where the blank gun is used a few months of a puppies life. As a training tool you don't think the dog will run into a long glider or have a bird shot where it can't see a fall, so longer marks and blinds are not out of the question.

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:30 pm

Not all of us have unlimited supply of birds to train with and At $20. A bird you can bet that a launcher is very appealing. I am training a versatile dog which is required to have a pretty good retrieve, but even so I have had some pretty long flying birds that made the dog have to mark far and the dummy launcher helped prepare for that. An added bonus is that the dogs love it.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:35 am

The opportunities A dummy launcher presents are almost limitless. We use it to train steady to wing,shot and fall. Steady honoring a retrieve. Since all of our birds are not shot at 25 yards we use it to encourage long searches. We use it as Part of our gun intro and as so many people stated the dogs love it. Lining up 4 or 5 dogs, launching a dummy and sending whichever dog you want is great discipline training, plus it is cheap.it is fun and a good time for everybody................................Cj

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:58 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:
Bluesky2012 wrote:Since you aren't handling a pointer onto a blind retrieve or working very long marks, I don't think using a launcher will do anything for it. You don't need to stretch a pointers marks out like you would a retriever. Bumpers exist so you can train drills and concepts into dogs cheaper than using a bunch of birds all the time. Since bumpers offer no value to a pointer because the bird always comes from in front of it and few people ever train a pointer to handle on a blind, I don't see any benefit to a launcher other than parlor tricks. Might increase retrieve desire a little, but I'd rather use the money for a launcher and birds and make a complete process for a pointer to practice with.
You obviously don't train for versatility. Yes, some of us train Versatile breeds to do more than point. Blinds have nothing to do with it though.

You obviously haven't ever read any of my posts in the past or looked at the dog in my picture. My GSP duck hunts very well. And that's actual duck hunting, not navhda swim in a circle for 10 minutes duck search crap. I do not see the use in a launcher like this for him. What good is it to shoot a bumper from next to the dog? Yes it goes further than you throw it but it does not nearly replicate a mark like having a winger would placed out at distance. If it helps so much for retrieving, why doesn't mike lardy or Chris Aiken use it for their retrievers? It does not replace a launcher out in the field throwing marks for you because it does not replicate the way an actual mark would aside from a "mark" from a quail which you don't need an expensive launcher to replicate.

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:00 am

cjhills wrote:The opportunities A dummy launcher presents are almost limitless. We use it to train steady to wing,shot and fall. Steady honoring a retrieve. Since all of our birds are not shot at 25 yards we use it to encourage long searches. We use it as Part of our gun intro and as so many people stated the dogs love it. Lining up 4 or 5 dogs, launching a dummy and sending whichever dog you want is great discipline training, plus it is cheap.it is fun and a good time for everybody................................Cj

This is about the only reason (steadiness) I could see it used for, but I think a shotgun and a bumper does the exact same or a shotgun and a winger is even better.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:00 pm

That would be a step up, but pretty much a budget blower IIRC the price for a winger.

But you take your DT add the electronics from the afore mentioned manual pigeon launcher conversion + someone's old archery release and you end up with a reasonable single shot copy of a winger.

Making the right purchases when the budge is tight is always a tough call and different for everyone.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:55 pm

Fun dog wrote:Not all of us have unlimited supply of birds to train with and At $20. A bird you can bet that a launcher is very appealing. I am training a versatile dog which is required to have a pretty good retrieve, but even so I have had some pretty long flying birds that made the dog have to mark far and the dummy launcher helped prepare for that. An added bonus is that the dogs love it.

$20 a bird? What kind of birds are you using?

Bluesky2012 · Post by **Bluesky2012** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:59 pm

DonF wrote:
Fun dog wrote:Not all of us have unlimited supply of birds to train with and At $20. A bird you can bet that a launcher is very appealing. I am training a versatile dog which is required to have a pretty good retrieve, but even so I have had some pretty long flying birds that made the dog have to mark far and the dummy launcher helped prepare for that. An added bonus is that the dogs love it.
$20 a bird? What kind of birds are you using?

$20/bird is expensive even for a live rooster pheasant. 3-4$ is steep for quail if you buy in bulk. You must be training at a hunting preserve and paying the daily hunt rate.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:50 am

Surely birds are harder to come by in Alaska!

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:08 am

They might be. Matter of fact they are! I lived up there several years and only knew one guy that raised quail. All the more reason to raise your own birds. Once you get the first chicks and housing, the cost won't be much more than raising them. We see it all the time down here. People looking all over for pigeons and can't find them. All they need to do is find a roost area and catch their own but for some reason they don't. Or put in a loft some where but they always have a reason they can't do that. When I lived in Alaska, I trained my first pointing dog with two pigeons I caught up there and wild grouse. Where there's a will, there's a way!

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:35 pm

Can't use any kind of quail in ON for dog training, unless you own a game farm. Can only use pigeon , chukar and pheasant.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:14 am

15$ is the going rate for a chuckar around here, 5$ for a pigeon if you can find them, I am not down to shooting my own birds yet still need homers, but the koop is getting full.

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:27 am

DonF wrote:
Fun dog wrote:Not all of us have unlimited supply of birds to train with and At $20. A bird you can bet that a launcher is very appealing. I am training a versatile dog which is required to have a pretty good retrieve, but even so I have had some pretty long flying birds that made the dog have to mark far and the dummy launcher helped prepare for that. An added bonus is that the dogs love it.
$20 a bird? What kind of birds are you using?

Probably the same birds you're using, but we have to fly them up.

AZ Brittany Guy · Post by **AZ Brittany Guy** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:05 am

Fun dog wrote:
DonF wrote:
Fun dog wrote:Not all of us have unlimited supply of birds to train with and At $20. A bird you can bet that a launcher is very appealing. I am training a versatile dog which is required to have a pretty good retrieve, but even so I have had some pretty long flying birds that made the dog have to mark far and the dummy launcher helped prepare for that. An added bonus is that the dogs love it.
$20 a bird? What kind of birds are you using?
Probably the same birds you're using, but we have to fly them up.

Hey Fun Dog, I would start breeding pigeons if I were you. At $20 a pop, I would be cranking them out like sausage.

Fun dog · Post by **Fun dog** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:09 pm

Hey Fun Dog, I would start breeding pigeons if I were you. At $20 a pop, I would be cranking them out like sausage.

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Yes that is my plan. I'm almost to the point where I have enough pigeons to start using as kill birds. I wish I'd thought of this a year ago. They're a lot easier to see when planted as well.

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