Building more run/independence.....

[Cooper]

Is it possible at 3 yrs old? My GSP is doing pretty well on birds. Finding them, handling them, very steady, relocates with caution etc. I can't be happier with that aspect. He will get out a couple hundred yds and looks great at times, but more often, he likes to be where he can see me and when he can't, he comes back to find me. For some that probably sounds like a great thing, but in big open Hun/Chukar country I would like him to stay out hunting and not waste so much time coming in and then casting back out, or circling back etc. We cover a lot of ground and walk a pretty fast pace, so this tends to be a little inefficient.

Has anyone ever had any luck building this, or is this just the way it's going to be ?

Thanks for the help

[Chukar12]

Cooper,

I would suggest that the dog may get more confident as time goes on, but it may be that you have what you have. If it was me I would try two things...

If you have access to a horse, a quad, or even land with roads for your truck...try some sessions where you run the dog from a faster moving mode of transportation. The idea is to keep pushing the dog forward. Initially the dog will probably stay close but if you give it half a dozen sessions you may see increased range from the habit of being pushed more aggressively...

Secondly, you can try a bigger running dog...sometimes a dog will go with and or compete with another. However, even as I say this I will admit that a large number of closer working dogs...especially those that return to you lack the drive to compete and the other dog is let to go where it will.

Dave Walker from Idaho suggests in print that whoaing a dog that comes in and then sending it out (assuming your dog releases and runs at a whistle or voice command) will eventually stop a dog from returning all the way in...they become conditioned to you stopping them and then being turned and they adopt the behavior naturally.

[ultracarry]

Cooper,

I would suggest that the dog may get more confident as time goes on, but it may be that you have what you have. If it was me I would try two things...

If you have access to a horse, a quad, or even land with roads for your truck...try some sessions where you run the dog from a faster moving mode of transportation. The idea is to keep pushing the dog forward. Initially the dog will probably stay close but if you give it half a dozen sessions you may see increased range from the habit of being pushed more aggressively...

Secondly, you can try a bigger running dog...sometimes a dog will go with and or compete with another. However, even as I say this I will admit that a large number of closer working dogs...especially those that return to you lack the drive to compete and the other dog is let to go where it will.

Dave Walker from Idaho suggests in print that whoaing a dog that comes in and then sending it out (assuming your dog releases and runs at a whistle or voice command) will eventually stop a dog from returning all the way in...they become conditioned to you stopping them and then being turned and they adopt the behavior naturally.

very good advice.

[Cooper]

I will give your suggestions a try. My partners have big running pointers and we hoped that might do something...but he is not an aggressive competitor, so it has not done what I had hoped.

I like the idea of trying a faster mode of transportation....I will try that and the whoaing/release suggestion. No harm in trying it all.

thanks for the info !!

[Sharon]

Probably you are already doing this, but don't call the dog in, until it's time to go home. If a dog is called in often , he will hang in so he doesn't have to return from a afar.

[Elkhunter]

At 3 years I think you may have what your gonna get, my old GSP did the same thing. I just got used to it, but it blew.

[DonF]

If your planning on trialing, doesn't sound like the dog will even make gun dog. They don't like to see a dog yo-yo. As a hunting dog, sounds like you have one a lot of people would be happy with. At 3 yrs, I suspect it won't open much more but maybe a bit, I agree it sounds like it's a bit low on confidence. May stop the yo-yoing with confidence built up. I wouldn't try to drive the dog out. Never seen it work to advantage. Most dog's driven take to easy footing and run rather than hunt. If you want the dog to go more, plant birds farther out and walk himm right to them. After a few sessions your dog might run right to where it knows the birds are. After it does that, if it does, start moving the birds to a little different spot. I doubt running with big runner's will work either. If for some reason your dog did go, you might end up with a dog that didn't run enough to one that runs to much. Kinda think it won't go with the runner's anyway, suspect it is a confidence thing. I've know a lot of hunter's that wish they had your problem.

[Cooper]

Thanks for the input Don. I am not planning on trialing and am a hunter only....I know there are a lot of people that would love a shorter range dog that can find and hold birds that you never have to worry about. I really shouldnt be complaining as a weekend warrrior I suppose, but after hunting with some big running pointers that search hard, find a ton of birds AND handle them well, it got in my head and that it is all I think about now..even though it takes a Garmin to find them on point.. He would make a PERFECT dog for someone that was not a hardcore hiker, didnt cover so much ground etc.
I thought he was MY dog until I mentioned to the wife that I was thinking about finding him an excellent loving home and looking for a hotter running dog. It was then I found out I was not the only one that was bonded with him...and got over ruled by wife and 3 daughters. He is super sweet, so it is no surprise everyone loves him and there is not way we can part with him...I am very attached too whether I like to admit it, or not. LOL. So, I am trying to make him the best I can to fit my style. ......I have dropped a couple hints of a second player....but that might take a little doin'. There is a litter of Shorthairs that looked like they would fit exactly what I am looking for on the dogs for sale section, but I just can't make it happen yet.

[M1Tanker]

Dave Walker also recommends a piece of duct tape

Are you ignoring the return when it happens and not saying anything...just keep on walking without aknowledgement. I have found this to work from time to time.

[DonF]

Good for you and good for him. Maybe in a year or two get a bigger running dog and run them together. I like two down at a time.

[Cooper]

Dave Walker also recommends a piece of duct tape

Are you ignoring the return when it happens and not saying anything...just keep on walking without aknowledgement. I have found this to work from time to time.

Yes for the most part. I never give him any praise, or attention. The most I might say occassionally if he doesnt head right back out is let's hunt and keep walking.

I won't give him a drink when he comes in on his own either. I make sure I call him in for a drink.....trying to eliminate everything he might associate coming in for.

[Sharon]

I wouldn't give up if you have the time. I bought a 3 years old. She had been abused for many years so would n't leave my side. Using much of the advice given a year later she is out their 2-300 yards now.

Tanker's advice is right on.

[Cooper]

I wouldn't give up if you have the time. I bought a 3 years old. She had been abused for many years so would n't leave my side. Using much of the advice given a year later she is out their 2-300 yards now.

Tanker's advice is right on.

I cannot give up. The village of which I reside would banish it's idiot and forgiveness would never be had.