Reality of training for UT on your own

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GWPtyler
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Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:58 am

This may get a tad long-winded, but bear with me.

I had plans of sending my GWP (18 months at the moment) to a professional trainer next summer to prepare him for Utility Testing. It was going to cost my wife and I a good chunk of change (money we really didn't have), but we figured if it helped bring out our dog's greatest potential, it would be worth it.

Lo and behold, the dog eats a gal-darn $1,500 tube sock, and now we no longer can financially even consider the professional trainer.

In some ways, I'm kind of happy it happened. I really want to Utility Test him at some point, and didn't really know how I felt about the possibility of "buying a title." I mean, I trained him myself to a perfect score Prize I in Natural Ability, and the pride in my dog and myself was unbelievable. Would I feel as proud if I let someone else do all the work while I benefited? I'm not sure...

As mentioned, as luck (if you can call it that) would have it, it's no longer a viable option regardless, so it's a moot point.

Before and after NA, my breeder met once a week with myself and one other guy who also was passionate about training. It was a great experience, and while we stayed pretty close to the NAVHDA training manual, it was really helpful to have a guiding hand through the process, especially since neither of us had ever done anything of the sort (both of our dogs are our first hunting dogs). I'm an especially hands-on learner. I can read books and watch countless videos, but when it comes to replicating what I saw or read, I'm clueless and unsure of myself.

To summarize the summer, we worked on cleaning up some basic OB, woah trained, whistle trained, collar conditioned, force fetched and began casting and blind retrieves on land and water (never got to finish thanks to the sock incident). I'm glad I had help with the force fetch, especially! Talk about a long, emotional and stressful process. But I'm really happy with the results, and after hunting him this fall, I KNOW all that hard work (4-5 nights a week from June through August) really paid off.

Now with hunting season winding down, I'm beginning to think about training again. Up here, training in the winter is a tough thing, but I imagine some of it is doable even in the snow. The real work , however, will begin in the spring and summer.

That said, how realistic is it to think I can have a dog UT ready by next fall? I realize none of you have even the slightest idea how competent I am as a trainer, nor how far my dog is trained to this point. In some ways, when I think about all that has to be done (the duck search especially, and even steadying to flush and shot) it's a bit overwhelming and seems impossible. Do I have the resources? Is it even plausible to think I can get him ready for UT test in next fall? That remains to be seen, I guess.

And while I know it would be a lot easier sending him off to get professionally trained, I keep coming back to what NAVHDA was originally created for and what its testing system means. It is an organization geared toward helping individuals train their OWN dog, and then test them on their progress, correct? Obviously having perfect scores and testing well can mean big money for breeding (maybe that's why tests have become a bigger deal), but at its roots, the process is still there to judge an individual and the capabilities of his or her hunting dog.

Maybe I'm an idealist, but that mentality kind of reassures me, and gives me some confidence to think I CAN do it on my own.

Now, while I do tend to follow the NAVHDA training book, I have discovered some shortcomings. Namely, it's brief and to the point. There doesn't seem to be a lot of detail, especially for troubleshooting. Thankfully, last summer I had a person with much knowledge to guide me through the rough patches, but I do not want to have to rely on him again as it was a big time investment and he did it pro bono. (I haven't asked him yet about training again, so maybe he'll want to help. But I'd like to plan ahead as if he's not going to be there, just in case it doesn't work out).

I purchased a remote bird launcher that's never held a bird. Remy has been a staunch pointer this fall and I've been more than pleasantly surprised by his abilities. While I'm not 100 percent confident at his staunchness, it does make me think that steadying him to flush and shot won't be such a giant leap in the summer.

I'll openly admit that his OB has lacked as of late. During out training, I was more than confident if I sat him somewhere, he would not budge until called. I know that's going to be a main focus after hunting season, as I fear the staying-in-the-blind-while-shots-are-fired part will be key to his success.

Then there's the proverbial and oft discussed duck search. While North Dakota is home to many a pothole where I can train, I do need to wrangle up a duck at some point to use for training. Like a dummy, I forgot to freeze any whole birds that I shot this fall. But I figure if I can purchase a few shackled farm ducks next spring, we'll be good to go.

I'm not sure if I've actually asked any direct questions. I guess this was more an airing of my thoughts to an online board. Was it a smart idea? I guess we'll see.

If anything, I'd like to hear from folks who've trained their own UT dogs. I'd also really like to come up with a pretty concrete schedule as far as training goes. That's another shortfall with the NAVHDA book: a lot of the timing for training is open to interpretation. I'd love to come up with a plan that includes concrete benchmarks. That way, when Remy accomplishes a task to a certain degree, I know we can move on to the next step.

Or doesn't it work that way?

Anyhoo, that's my ramblings. If it's unclear and sort of misdirected, I apologize. I kind of feel better just having it all out there.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Coveyrise64 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:28 pm

No sense training alone, here is a link to your local NAVHDA chapter located in West Fargo. They should be able to help you with your training. Chapters hold monthly training days and many members get together weekly. Most things can done by yourself but at times it sure is helpful to have an extra hand plus another opinion is a benefit.

http://www.rrvnavhda.com/

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by proudag08 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:58 pm

I am right there with you on the whole "I want to do it myself" thing! I understand your desire to not just buy it but actually put in the work. Also, I get the hands on thing. I am very much a monkey see monkey do learner. If I watch someone do something, it doesnt take me long to pick it up, but reading about it and looking at pictures doesnt really help me too much.

I would reccomend asking the guy that helped you last year. My thought is, if he did it last year why wouldnt he want to do it again. As long as you come to him with gratitude and an attitude of respect, I think he will be more than happy to help you.

I have been thinking a lot about NAVHDA NA testing. I guess I can just send off for the manuel? Also, doesn anyone know anybody in the Ft. Worth area that would know of some NAVHDA folks I could get in contact with?

GWP, keep at it man! You can do it!

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GUNDOGS » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:05 pm

loved your post, makes perfect sense to ask the questions and im interested to see the help you receive..NAVHDA is the way to go for help in person for sure.. for me, reading is good but being shown things in person is much better and NAVHDA training days can provide grounds that will allow you to practice for the test..heres a link to a blog one of the members on here (byrdgirl) has training for the UT test..i found it helpful, good luck and post your progress to help the rest of us out who want to do it too :mrgreen: ....ruth

http://gsphuntingdog.blogspot.com/2011/ ... -test.html
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Coveyrise64 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:09 pm

The Texas Chapter (Ft Worth area) has a test Dec 10-11 at LBJ Grasslands near Decatur. I think, but not sure it will be mostly NA testing since the drought has depleted their duck search water. Give them a call and go watch, I'm sure you'll meet someone that lives in your area.

http://www.texasnavhda.org/

Coveyrise64
proudag08 wrote:I am right there with you on the whole "I want to do it myself" thing! I understand your desire to not just buy it but actually put in the work. Also, I get the hands on thing. I am very much a monkey see monkey do learner. If I watch someone do something, it doesnt take me long to pick it up, but reading about it and looking at pictures doesnt really help me too much.

I would reccomend asking the guy that helped you last year. My thought is, if he did it last year why wouldnt he want to do it again. As long as you come to him with gratitude and an attitude of respect, I think he will be more than happy to help you.

I have been thinking a lot about NAVHDA NA testing. I guess I can just send off for the manuel? Also, doesn anyone know anybody in the Ft. Worth area that would know of some NAVHDA folks I could get in contact with?

GWP, keep at it man! You can do it!
VC TJ's Highfalutin Hawkeye MH, UTI R.I.P. 4/29/05-12/18/18

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by birddogger » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:12 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:No sense training alone, here is a link to your local NAVHDA chapter located in West Fargo. They should be able to help you with your training. Chapters hold monthly training days and many members get together weekly. Most things can done by yourself but at times it sure is helpful to have an extra hand plus another opinion is a benefit.

http://www.rrvnavhda.com/

Coveyrise64
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:36 pm

Thanks for the tips.

Coveyrise64,
I'm actually a member of the Red River Valley NAVHDA Chapter, but I honestly don't know if they met for a single training session this summer. They supposedly have board meetings once a month, so I'll try to attend the next one. I went to the banquet after the spring test day, and that was the last time I talked to any NAVHDA people, aside from my breeder.

Proudag08,
If you visit the official NAVHDA website, I believe they have an online shop where you can order the training booklet. And thanks for the vote of confidence!

GUNDOGS,
Appreciate the blog link. Looks like I have more reading to do!

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:47 pm

You definately will benefit with NAVHDA. You can do all the stuff your self with a little inginuity. I did mine my self with help of another friend, to the VC. Also MHs'.

Alot of planning, lot of birds, decent places to work common sense, patience and you will get it done.

You will also be able to meet folks and develop a training group to meet once twice a week or so.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GWPtyler » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:59 pm

That would be ideal, but I really don't know how active our local club is. I mean, they haven't even updated the minutes on the website since March. As I said, I'll try and attend their meeting Monday (if it's even happening) and show my interest. Maybe they just need a little fresh jolt of enthusiasm from a young whippersnapper who doesn't no any better :mrgreen:

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by proudag08 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:19 pm

GWPtyler wrote: a young whippersnapper who doesn't no any better :mrgreen:
I knew there was a reason I liked you! I'm one of those too...

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Sharon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:01 pm

"Is it even plausible to think I can get him ready for UT test in next fall?" quote

Absolutely possible. Give it a go.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Coveyrise64 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:03 pm

GWPtyler wrote:Thanks for the tips.

Coveyrise64,
I'm actually a member of the Red River Valley NAVHDA Chapter, but I honestly don't know if they met for a single training session this summer. They supposedly have board meetings once a month, so I'll try to attend the next one. I went to the banquet after the spring test day, and that was the last time I talked to any NAVHDA people, aside from my breeder.
If you wait on someone else to call you it might be a while. Since the chapter is basically local for you I bet there are people training every weekend. You need to call the prez or training coordinator and find out. If you show some initiative things generally work out well. Except for chapter training days I train by myself 95% of the time but have a standing invitation to anyone one that wants join me.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by larue » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:38 pm

you certainly can train your dog by yourself,and run him in a ut test.
In fact the navhda program was designed with that in mind.The training and then running the dog in n/a then ut was designed for the owner to learn about his dog,with the goal being to evaluate your dog for possible improving the breed.
The reality is you will learn more about your dog in training then you will in a test,and you will gain the most important thing you and your dog can gain,
and that is memories.
Navhda has turned into getting a high prize score,when it should be about evaluating your dog.
Go train your dog,run it in ut tests and have fun.
Btw,I ran max along time ago in north dakota at the red river chapter,if i remember right.It seemed like a nice chapter back then.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Doodle » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:57 am

Well, he's not going out to the pro and he is living with you. What do you have to lose if he is not ready for UT in the fall? Alot of us are impacted by snow/winter training. Maybe you can set up a table in a basement or garage. We tend to brush up whoa, heel, retrieve, etc in the winter. We run them to keep them in condition. You are taking the correct first steps. Ask everybody until you find a chapter or a couple people to train with. Somebody usually knows somebody that can put you in touch with somebody to train with. An average individual CAN ready and run a UT quite successfully. PLEASE take this as encouragement. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Set your goal, make your game plan, and write it all in pencil. You will make changes and adjust as you go along and read your dogs strengths and weaknesses. If you feel you need help and don't have a training buddy post your questions here. Many here will follow your progress and cheer you on. Best of luck to you.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:39 am

If they are not active, you can still do it. You just need to read the judging criterion, Read all the training aspects, get the birds and start in a methodical, patient approach. Write down a plan. Write it down. Set aside times for working the dog. First is all the yard work. I think, you need to be flawless in that. Then you need to introduce distractions into you finished yard work and proof that stuff. You may need to FF the dog for the duck search and future VC. If so It would be far better to hook up with some one in ND to work with you even if it is on the weekend and you travel. They can send you home with the weeks goals and homework. My view has always been prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Train to a higher level than you believe is needed to pass and then your dog will be prepared for any screwy things that may happen. Once you have proofed the dog in your training fields and your ponds go to different places, mix it up, make that dog comfortable in all places, so when that dog sees a field pond or woods it already knows there are birds there or ducks in the pond. You do that and proof in those places too.

You can do this. Just be patient and understand exactly what your end goal is and the smaller goals for the day of training are. Your dog has all the tools you just need to bring them out at the right times.

Good luck.
Rick
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GWPtyler » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:29 am

I really do appreciate all the kind words and votes of confidence. The more I think about it, the more I feel that training Remy to UT ready is not just plausible, but very possible.

I'll take everyone's advice to heart. As mentioned, the local NAVHDA meeting is supposed to be Monday, so I'll go and make some contacts.

Also just got an e-mail back from the breeder. We're going to try to meet up for a late-season rooster hunt. Maybe I'll bend his ear about next summer at that time.

Other than that, I'm definitely going to write down a plan. Last year I followed the NAVHDA training manual and was guided by a veteran handler, but I never actually wrote anything down. I think if I go through what is expected of the handler and dog come test day, I can isolate and focus on exactly what Remy needs work on.

Looks like I have some work ahead of me...but is it really work if you're having so much fun? :D

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by MTR » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:42 am

I say go for it. I hope to UT this fall as well. Have him steadied up right now and is 75% in the field while hunting and better than 95% while training. He has really figured out the "game" of train vs. hunt at this time. Going to FF this winter in the basement when I have a 2 month period of no birds and no formalized training with a the chapters I belong to. One thing that I found with training alone vs. with a partner or other group, the dog will handle differently. I think it's important to train with a few people walking with you to simulate the gallery/judges/gunners in the test.

Duck search is the one that I think working with another person really helps (along with having plenty of ducks to put out at first). If you haven't taken a handler's clinic I would suggest that. I learned a lot at the one that I attended and may even go to another for a different instructor's point of view. The other thing that I suggest is to either ask to walk with the judges for a UT test, or volunteer to gun (if you feel confidnet in your skills) and/or marshal for a test. You can really see what the tests are about and even, perhaps, lower your level of anxiety or nervousness during your own test.

Good luck and have fun.
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:48 am

MTR wrote:I say go for it. I hope to UT this fall as well. Have him steadied up right now and is 75% in the field while hunting and better than 95% while training. He has really figured out the "game" of train vs. hunt at this time. Going to FF this winter in the basement when I have a 2 month period of no birds and no formalized training with a the chapters I belong to. One thing that I found with training alone vs. with a partner or other group, the dog will handle differently. I think it's important to train with a few people walking with you to simulate the gallery/judges/gunners in the test.

Duck search is the one that I think working with another person really helps (along with having plenty of ducks to put out at first). If you haven't taken a handler's clinic I would suggest that. I learned a lot at the one that I attended and may even go to another for a different instructor's point of view. The other thing that I suggest is to either ask to walk with the judges for a UT test, or volunteer to gun (if you feel confidnet in your skills) and/or marshal for a test. You can really see what the tests are about and even, perhaps, lower your level of anxiety or nervousness during your own test.

Good luck and have fun.
+1 for attending the handlers clinic GWPtyler, you MUST attend one its very informative for new handlers in NAVHDA...keep us posted on your efforts :D
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GWPtyler » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:04 am

Handlers clinic, eh? May have to find out if there are any in the near future. Don't think RRVNAVHDA hosts any, but maybe the Minnesota chapter does.

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by northern cajun » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:25 am

larue wrote:you certainly can train your dog by yourself,and run him in a ut test.
In fact the navhda program was designed with that in mind.The training and then running the dog in n/a then ut was designed for the owner to learn about his dog,with the goal being to evaluate your dog for possible improving the breed.
The reality is you will learn more about your dog in training then you will in a test,and you will gain the most important thing you and your dog can gain,
and that is memories.
Navhda has turned into getting a high prize score,when it should be about evaluating your dog.
Go train your dog,run it in ut tests and have fun.
Btw,I ran max along time ago in north dakota at the red river chapter,if i remember right.It seemed like a nice chapter back then.

You are so correct about everyone wanting to get a high score, I agree with you will you do train for the highest score the test is more important to show you where you may have potential holes in your training. Then after testing you can work on those aspects of training if needed.
I quote a past president of Navhda "any dog that is prized in UT would make a good hunting dog".
HAVE A GREAT DAY!!
GOD BLESS

DOGS COULDNT LIVE WITHOUT EM!!
NORTHERN CAJUN

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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by GUNDOGS » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:12 pm

GWPtyler wrote:Handlers clinic, eh? May have to find out if there are any in the near future. Don't think RRVNAVHDA hosts any, but maybe the Minnesota chapter does.
heres an older link but it still gives you info and a number for your chapter to find out when your next handlers clinic will be, im going to attend another one this summer with a different chapter, maybe learn something new :wink: good luck and post lots of pics when you are training, it will help lots of us out plus we love just looking at pics :D ...ruth

http://www.rrvnavhda.com/docs/HClinic_Poster.pdf
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Re: Reality of training for UT on your own

Post by snips » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:31 pm

I did it myself last summer, but had the suppport of 2 groups that I had to drive 2hours for each train day. They were not real active at the actual test prep, but had great advice on handling tips. Had good search water and ducks for training. I would buy a couple extra when I could to bring home, as they were hard to get around here last yr. I took the initutive to bring my heeling sticks and blind for test training..I also found some ponds closeby for just steadyness by the blind and water retrieves, heeling by the water, ect. but not good search water...Had to drive for that. It is great to have a helper to throw ducks and aid in steadyness shooting.
brenda

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