E collar conditioning...

[JWP58]

Ok so i just got an e-collar yesterday and i've started using it on my 6month old britt. What i've been doing is putting him on a check cord and use commands he knows (ex. here, whoa, ect). I start by just using vibrate 90% he responds if he ignores me i nic him (on level 4..just enough for him to shake his head) and as soon as he responds i stop the stimulation (i'm also lightly tugging on the rope like i always have).


Am i going about this in the right way? I'm not teaching him anything new, i'm just using the collar to re-enforce what i want him to do (i also tug on the check cord at the same time). Is it ok just to use vibrate if he responds?

Thanks.

[kninebirddog]

You need to have a method

The method I use preps a dog for points of contact so when I over lay with the e collar the Stimulation has a meaning
As fr Vibration..You will have to wait for a response from someone that uses that feature.. don't as the lower levels on My collar have less stimulation factor then that vibrate does

I also have where momentary has a meaning for Movement commands and what I am doing will be the first cue as in if I am walking and dog is headed in a direction that isn't going with me I will tap the button until the dog is going with me If I am standing still and the dog doesn't start to come towards me I will tap the button until the dog is coming to me

After I work the Risk Smith Method of the post for teaching a point of contact then a constant till stop will be applied starting at the flank with the e collar

but I begin this teaching of cues with the command lead over lay to check cord over lay to e collar

http://www.kninebirddog.com/understandi ... ollar.html

[RoostersMom]

If I was you, I'd go backwards. Keep the collar on the dog during training sessions for several weeks and do NOT use the collar. Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise. You need to keep the collar on without stimulation for several weeks before you start using the collar.

I would also get a copy of the perfect start - it shows you how to properly collar condition a dog. Or if working a retriever - Evan Graham's series is good.

[DonF]

+1

Squirt and Duke neither has ever been shocked, they respond very well to the vibrate. Bodie is a different story. If you ever expect to remove thr collar in the field, you don't want him collar wise.

[adogslife]

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

[gonehuntin']

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

Well, if you talk to the retriever trainers, who developed the whole, modern, electric collar program, they'll be only too glad to share stories with you.

It takes a stupid, stupid, dog to not know when a collar has been strapped on him for an infraction. A collar dog is a collar dog and they wear them 100% of the time. There is NO reason NOT to keep a collar on a dog unless he is in a trial.

[DonF]

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

Your kidding, right?

[KellyM87]

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

Yes, I have a Llew who is collar smart.... you pull it out and she immediately puts her tail between her legs and goes to hide. If I take put it on her anyways and take her out, she will not leave my side. Now, I always put it on my dog anytime they go out anywhere, not even just out bird hunting.

[Sharon]

Gee kelly your story makes me cringe. Sorry. That is a dog who has had the collar used incorrectly by someone. Not normal at all for a dog that has been properly conditioned to the collar. You say you make her wear it anyways? I 'd put that collar away until my dog hopefully got her sense of security back. That isn't collar smart.

As a comparison only; When I get out the electricity my dogs start jumping around, smiling , knowing we're going somewhere.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

A dog that has been introduced to the E-collar in the correct manner will get excited at the sight of it because it means they are going to get worked.
All bird dogs look forward to that & if they don't I want another dog!!

[Aries]

A dog that has been introduced to the E-collar in the correct manner will get excited at the sight of it because it means they are going to get worked.

Right on!!! I introduce the E- collar with a very simple method. Since my are all house dogs intro is everytime I let one outside. You should see how they line up and beg to have the E-collar strapped on there neck. The E-collar to them is better than treats.

Two things makes Butler get excited, me putting on my boots and strapping the e-collar on him. Because he knows the fun is about ready to begin .

Butler "beep" the e-collar for about a week even before I turned it on to find a response. I started off with a 2 low (Pro 100)and after a short time a nic on 1 or a 1 low got his attention. Now I very rarely use it, only if I have to repeat a command.

[birddogger]

Yup, all my dogs get real happy when they see the e-collar.

Charlie

[Aries]

Forgot to add that I've been putting the e-collar on Butlers belly about every other day during whoa and steady training and have yet to turn it on. Once he gets to where I think he's ready I'll introduce the collar into the training.

[adogslife]

I didn't say only put the collar on the dog when you train.

I asked for proof that having a dog wear a collar for weeks,months even, without turning it on really has anything to do with creating a non-collar wise dog.

Becoming collar wise is all about what the trainer does once the collar is turned on.

Forgot to add that I've been putting the e-collar on Butlers belly about every other day during whoa and steady training and have yet to turn it on.

Well, sure, the dog will never figure out it's the collar around his belly and that you are causing it,
really, do you really believe your dog is so dumb that wearing it around his flank with it turned off is conditioning him to be non collar wise?Once you press the button once, he'll learn his lessons well, but he will know each and every time you put that collar on to behave.

[EvanG]

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

Not specifically. But, like most things, it depends on how you do it. If you were following an established and credible program you would associate the stimulus with a known command, and condition the dog to eliminate the stimulus through compliance with the command. Following that path of logic, you need not have the dog wear the collar prior to collar use. The key is to make sure the collar is worn on all future occasions where the dog will be in position to train or work under command. Be very consistent.

EvanG

[4dabirds]

Putting a collar on a dog and immediately stimulating the dog is a recipe for a dog becoming collar-wise

I hear this so much.
Is there any proof of this?

Not specifically. But, like most things, it depends on how you do it. If you were following an established and credible program you would associate the stimulus with a known command, and condition the dog to eliminate the stimulus through compliance with the command. Following that path of logic, you need not have the dog wear the collar prior to collar use. The key is to make sure the collar is worn on all future occasions where the dog will be in position to train or work under command. Be very consistent.

EvanG

just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation

[birddogger]

just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation

Say what?

Charlie

[gonehuntin']

just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation

You guys can make dog training seem so freakin' complicated, I can't believe it.

Simply put, when a dog has been collar conditioned correctly, the collar should excite him and mean a pleasurable experience is coming. A collar dog is so used to doing things right, he just never does them wrong.

[JWP58]

Ok thanks guys, i've already just started putting it on him when he goes out....with the collar off. I'll do that for a few weeks..

[gonehuntin']

Swing it around like a bumper and excite him before you put it on so he always associates it with a pleasurable experience.

[birddogger]

Swing it around like a bumper and excite him before you put it on so he always associates it with a pleasurable experience.

Hmm, I never gave that a thought, but it sounds like a good idea. A lot of the little simple things can make big difference....No need to make it complicated.

Charlie

[EvanG]

just to clarify it seems to me your saying dogs learn by association and putting the collar on the dog creates an association that is good but not relative to the training association of compliance to a command by recognizing a trained behavior and avoiding stimulation

They learn nothing by putting that contraption on their necks. The learning begins when we do things in association with its presence. That's why inconsistent use makes them wise to it. It's on = standards are enforced. It's off = I'm free!!

It's really not that complicated.

EvanG

[4dabirds]

What I meant by putting it on was they will associate the collar with it's time to train not that they learn anything by it. If you put the collar on and treat the dog poorly then the association would be negative

[EvanG]

I fully agree, especially if this happens with consistency.

EvanG