To train the Point, or Not train the Point

honeyrun · Post by **honeyrun** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:10 am

When working with your young and up and coming pups, do you allow the pup to use it's natural instincts to surface OR do you not allow them to discover birds on their own? In other words, do you let them be a pup and allow the birds to teach them or do you use training devices to teach them to point?

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:27 am

Since I'm bringing home one of Rick and Brenda's pups soon, this has been on my mind...

For what I do, it's desire and drive first/manners later. Let the pup be a pup for about a year. Socialize him, let him discover nature and have a great time. Get him used to going with me and coming when I call.

I don't have sufficient wild birds here to teach pup, so I'm going to have to conquer that.

My 2-year old Vizsla caught too many pen quail. We're working on homing pigeons and he even managed to catch one of them that flushed into his face when one of my kids accidently dropped it on between them and the dog rather than on the far side of them.

Decoy · Post by **Decoy** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:57 am

Let the dog be a puppy and find birds and develop its point naturally.
dont fuss at the dog for pointing bees, butterflies, piles of poop, kids, leaves blowing across the yard -- all puppy pointing is good.

I think a year is too long though.

Keep the puppy on a check cord to prevent him from catching pen raised birds.
the dog will start to hold point very quickly.
should chase the first 3 or 4 birds.
then the dog might stop to flush or take 5 or 6 steps before it remembers it cant catch the bird.
then the dog will stop to sent and point.
when the dog does it right -- kill the bird
if the dog does not do it right DONT kill the bird.

If you dont have wild birds (i dont either) get some pen raised birds - dont worry about planting them so they will hold -- let 2 or 3 out a week and let the puppy discover them on his own sort of like hunting -- The pen raised birds will learn to fly better out of a cage and they will hang around the general area where you let them go (some of them will get picked off by hawks etc... --- but who knows there may be some birds left for the season that you can hunt.

Just my opinion, listen to as many people as you can and glean the good info from the bad and form your own approach. Dont just listen to 1 person or theory.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:37 pm

My theory is=if you have the right breeding you don`t have to train a dog to point. I come into contact, unfortunatly, or fortunatly, however you want to look at it, with dogs of all breeding and see alot. Also have to adjust training to whatever I get, which has taught me alot. I ALWAYS try to promote a dog pointing naturally, that is first choice. Some dogs just don`t come into the world with natural lock-up, then it takes some help. I have seen many dogs that have problems with pointing, from wanting to creep in too close, to hitting scent and rushing the bird without hesitation. Many of these dogs can successfully be taught to point with style, BUT, you are ALWAYS better off with well bred dogs that simlpy hit scent and lock up!

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:15 pm

I tend to agree with Brenda...there is a WORLD of difference between a well-bred and an "average" bred dog. Well-bred makes training these pups fun...just reinforce what they already know. Average makes us work for our training dollars.

I personally let the dog work on natural ability and then pick out the problems and go from there. I always let the dogs find the birds, on a cord. Not until I'm 90% sure that the dogs know what they are doing, consistently, do I take them off the cord. It's way too hard to make corrections when the cord is out of my hands.

I also don't start to work on bird training until they are between 4-6 months old. Until then, I strongly suggest to the owners that they get going on the yard work. Makes it easier for both me and the dog.

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:29 pm

Decoy I like the way you think

. I have always been of the school to let a pup be a pup and discover the world on their own especially birds. Most of my pups never see a checkcord in the field till they are over 6 months old, the yard yes but not the field. In the field they learn about birds, teach them selves to point cause they aint catching that bird, and lean where birds hang out. When the pup is pointing good, not just a flash point they are telling me it's time to get more serious about the job with them. Nothing IMO is worse than rushing a pup to meet a humans schedule.