Steady after the shot

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Brushbustin Sporting Dogs
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Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:40 am

You've flush the bird, fired your blank pistol. You turn back to your dog and now he's wagging his tail. How to keep him rigid until you grab him by his collar?
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by northern cajun » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:19 am

May I ask why you want to grab his collar after the shot?
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:49 am

May I ask you if you have ever been to a field trial??
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by tailcrackin » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:50 am

If the bird is gone, and all is done for that part of the session, why do you want him rigid? Why I say, is all dogs act different, and when he/she has done exactly what and how you wanted and have taught....sounds to me like dogs saying....."Dad, I done good...right??" That make sense? Its all a process, and this part of it sounds like you have done a good job, and the dog sounds to be right on tract with you. IMO
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by topher40 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:03 pm

Intensity after the flush isnt really anything to worry about Rob. If they are staying put, you can win with that.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:23 pm

Would it help to have multiple birds to flush and blank again?
It is not a problem in MH, which is different of course but the work is done at that point if there is no retrieve.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:36 pm

Jonesy, Chris, I get what ya mean. I know its not a must by any means but when you see a dog that holds his tail high and tight after the shot its just a little polish ya know. I just think it looks nicer with that tail high and rigid after the shot. I've seen it in dogs but wasn't sure how a person would get a dog to hold that style...
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by northern cajun » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:50 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:May I ask you if you have ever been to a field trial??
Sure have to a few in fact I don't collar my dogs they heel!
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by northern cajun » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:53 pm

I think ruffshooter has the ticket that is what I do keep em guessing not knowing how many birds there are, that usually will help keep the intensity your looking for threw that phase of the work.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by tailcrackin » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:08 pm

When you break a dog, the hardest part is the initial steadyness, after the flush. I feel once you recieve that with no collar correction at all, the dog is doing things with and for you. Now you have it working or or somewhat steady threw the shot.......that is the next level of work.....once you two get good an comfy with this part, shoot the shotgun......watch things possibly blow a little, this will be a little more exciting for the dog. Next few work outs the dog will stand at lil more attention, usually. When you start getting that good and settled, take an have a helper shoot the bird, walk over get it and bring back an give to the dog, dont let it break for the retrieve...............yet, It will start anticipating the kill, and cause you a little greif. This way here the dog wont know if I am gonna get it, or the dog is, or the helper, it will attempt to stay high and tight to wait what you ask for the retrieve. Dog work is all baby steps, you sound to be on your way. Its not about the kill of the bird, its about the dogs manners with birds or the birds actions. Thanks Jonesy
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:35 pm

northern cajun wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:May I ask you if you have ever been to a field trial??
Sure have to a few in fact I don't collar my dogs they heel!
Good for you but heeling has nothing to do with my question!!! If your information is useless to me why give it. I could care less if your dog heels or not...
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by northern cajun » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:39 pm

You right it doesnt.

But if you read my post I agreed with ruff about the method to keep em tight.....guess you didnt read that one.

Gone from this one. Good Luck with the dog.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:44 pm

Ya Jonesy i'm getting what your saying 100%.

Here is my dog. He points High on both ends, has a great tail. He is broke. I broke him last summer and had some success with him last fall in the few trials I attended. He is as dependable of a broke dog at 2 and a half that I've had. He is rock solid, intense, and classy up until I fire the gun. When I turn back to him its like you said Jonesy he starts wagging his tail sayin "I dun good right". He holds that tail up so nice I just think it'd look nicer if he stayed that way until I got back to him.

Start shooting some birds and letting him have a few... Up to this point I havn't let him retrieve at all. Only fly aways. I wanted him to know he needs to stay put!! I might after this spring trial season start leting him retrieve and taking the bird back to him some and see if that adds some polish!!

Thanks Jonesy
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:36 pm

Multiple birds. If you put out more than one launcher, then pop the 2nd or 3rd bird as he startst o wag his tail, he never knows how many birds there are and is always anticipating more. Makes steadying the dog easier too.

Pop them like wild birds go; sometimes one, a delay 2nd one, delay third one. Sometimes two then one. Sometimes all three as fast as you can push the button. Make it exciting and interesting for him.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Grange » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:35 pm

I like the idea of multiple launchers because that is what worked for me. I set the launchers in a way that the second bird was out of the scent cone of the first. I'd launched the bird the dog was pointing first and then "style" the dog up and wait for any sign of moving such as a wagging tail. Once there was movement I'd launch the second bird. After a while I switched the order to keep my setter guessing. This helped with intensity after the flush and shot.

I also received this tip from a former poster. Shoot the pistol before launching/popping the bird. The first time I did that my setter looked utterly confused, but this method did help with intensity. Another tactic that I've used is when I worked the bird normally flush/launch then shoot I would keep walking around and fire the gun again. I think both these methods helped desentitized the dog to the shot because while my dog was STWS she flinched slightly on the shot. So aside from helping with the intesity it eliminated her flinching.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:42 pm

Keep the dog guessing in training with multiple birds, multiple shots etc. Flush the bird he is not pointing, fire and collar him away. Flush two at a time and fire. Flush the one he is pointing, fire and when he loosens pop the next bird. Mix it up. He will stay intense as you pick him up and carry him away should you choose to.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:00 pm

I don't own or use launchers so I will not be "popping" birds for him...
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:53 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:I don't own or use launchers so I will not be "popping" birds for him...
Geeze; you're really screwed then aren't you? Let us know what works for you. :roll:
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:10 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:I don't own or use launchers so I will not be "popping" birds for him...
Geeze; you're really screwed then aren't you? Let us know what works for you. :roll:

I broke this dog without one of your launchers, maybe I am a better trainer than you. Come down ill teach you a thing or 3. Everyone else thank you for your suggestions.

Editted to remove the references to fellow members mental capabilites. We don't need that on the board especially when someone is tring to help.

Ezzy
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Neil » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:48 pm

The only way I have seen it done is with barrel work, teaching a dog a command to raise his head, most use a "Hiss" sound. If his head gets high enough, the tail should stop. But part of the barrel work is to train for a high tail.

I am of the camp that once the bird flies and the shot fired the dog's job is done, but since the Shooting Dog guys (first the Tracy's and now many others) have been training dogs to get higher after the flush and shot, some judges are looking for it and reward it.

I do agree it looks good and have to remind myself it has nothing to do with being a bird dog.

If you need instruction on barrel work, you will need to consult someone more skilled than I am. I have been doing it for 15+ years, and I understand it enough it works for me, but not enough to transfer the knowledge.

Good luck, you could accomplish your goal while waiting for the snow to melt.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by slistoe » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:
Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:I don't own or use launchers so I will not be "popping" birds for him...
Geeze; you're really screwed then aren't you? Let us know what works for you. :roll:

I broke this dog without one of your launchers, maybe I am a better trainer than you. Come down ill teach you a thing or 3. Everyone else thank you for your suggestions.

Editted to remove the references to fellow members mental capabilites. We don't need that on the board especially when someone is tring to help.

Ezzy
Some people like to make it really, really hard to help them.

I have seen as more dogs get "loose" from anticipating the retrieve than those that tighten up from it. But whatever you want to try. Seems several folks have told you what really works, not some speculation about what might or might not. Try the barrel thing. A long and slow process to the same end but surely you might have a barrel just lying around that you could spare for the job. :roll:

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:08 pm

Ezzy, tell me in what way was he trying to help me by posting "I was screwed" I was a foolish post some have tried to help so have given moronic advice. To those trying to give good advice I thanked them.

This board is filled with my way is they only way people. Gonehuntin struck a nerve as he was helping in NO way.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by wems2371 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:22 pm

I'm no experienced trainer, but when we haven't had multiple launchers available...my husband has stuffed an extra live pigeon or two in his vest pocket to throw...or I as a helper have thrown them. Have just continued to kick the grass and turn away to where the dog doesn't see you throw.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:53 pm

Brushbustin Sporting Dogs wrote:Ezzy, tell me in what way was he trying to help me by posting "I was screwed" I was a foolish post some have tried to help so have given moronic advice. To those trying to give good advice I thanked them.

This board is filled with my way is they only way people. Gonehuntin struck a nerve as he was helping in NO way.

So........You didn't think that:
by gonehuntin' » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:36 pm

Multiple birds. If you put out more than one launcher, then pop the 2nd or 3rd bird as he startst o wag his tail, he never knows how many birds there are and is always anticipating more. Makes steadying the dog easier too.

Pop them like wild birds go; sometimes one, a delay 2nd one, delay third one. Sometimes two then one. Sometimes all three as fast as you can push the button. Make it exciting and interesting for him.Multiple birds. If you put out more than one launcher, then pop the 2nd or 3rd bird as he startst o wag his tail, he never knows how many birds there are and is always anticipating more. Makes steadying the dog easier too.

Pop them like wild birds go; sometimes one, a delay 2nd one, delay third one. Sometimes two then one. Sometimes all three as fast as you can push the button. Make it exciting and interesting for him.
Your terse response was, to someone trying to help you:
I don't own or use launchers so I will not be "popping" birds for him...
I'm surprised that if you're such an incredible trainer, you waste your time asking rabble like us for any ideas. Sorry I tried to help.
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Ridge-Point » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:26 am

Multiple bird launchers is the answer. If you don't want your dog smelling the launchers then do some stop to flush work with the dog coming from upwind. If you shot your blank before you popped the launcher, you could actually get the dog to go into an intense point on gunfire.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by mudhunter » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:40 pm

You really don't need a launcher, Tossing a bird out of a bag you have when you go to flush has the same affect as multiple launchers. Their are a lot of little tricks, have your hat in your hand as you walk back and give it a toss when the dogs starts to lose intensity, Just stop and pretend like your looking for another bird when walking back. Lots of little things can help the dog maintain style. Also don't walk straight back to the dog, walk around the dog and approach from the side.

Style after the flush is meaningless but it looks good!!

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by birddog1968 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:57 pm

Wehle used to use multiple launchers, but what I found an interesting trick is he used to do his bob whistle and toss stones in front of the dog.....had the effect of making the dog stand up tall and rigid after the first flush....
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by Brushbustin Sporting Dogs » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:35 pm

mudhunter wrote:You really don't need a launcher, Tossing a bird out of a bag you have when you go to flush has the same affect as multiple launchers. Their are a lot of little tricks, have your hat in your hand as you walk back and give it a toss when the dogs starts to lose intensity, Just stop and pretend like your looking for another bird when walking back. Lots of little things can help the dog maintain style. Also don't walk straight back to the dog, walk around the dog and approach from the side.

Style after the flush is meaningless but it looks good!!
Your just tossing birds after the shot on your way back to the dog...?? Makes sense, leaves that anticipation factor. Thats kinda what Jonesy suggested as well.

BD1968, He just tossed stones in the direction of the dog?? Seems odd... but it musta worked for him. I think mine would think i was throwing them AT him and not towards him!!

Robbie
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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by birddog1968 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:08 pm

no, not at the dog....

He always made a soft bobwhite whistle around the dogs who were working/standing birds....he would approach quartering from behind and making the bob whistle which reinforced there was a bird there and tossed stones in the grass in front of the dog on point.....that said in the video there was always multiple launchers in front of the dog too.

Its on the wing and shot video....the example on the vid seemed to show exactly what you describe, tightening the dog up after the first flush because the dog never knew if another was coming. The dog would let down slightly after the first flush and a bob whistle and a tossed stone in the grass really tightened the dog back up. I guess the stone toss was a way to keep intensity and not actually flush another bird....made a noise and made the grass move in front of the dog.
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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Re: Steady after the shot

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:11 pm

Distracting a dog on point is a very old technique I think.

Having a pocketful of pebbles can be very useful if you have a dog that is looking around or ticking or flagging slightly on point. It seems to startle them and tightens them up because they don't know what just happened. At least that is how it appears to me.

A half empty water bottle works too if you skid it on the ground out in front of the dog. Just don't miss and whop the dog with either one, :lol: :lol:

RayG

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