Playing fetch?

[Virgil]

So I still have several months before I get my GWP pup so I'm doing lots of reading so I can train him right.
I'm thinking about when I am going to train, how I'm going to excersize him and the like.

While thinking about all this, and reading about training methods and such, I started to wonder if just taking the dog out and playing fetch once in a while would be bad for his training.

I'm going to use the dog for probably 50% chukar/pheasant and 50% ducks.
I'm going to spend time in a boat, and in a blind while duck hunting.
I want the dog to fetch when told, not on the shot.
I figure this will be pretty easy to train, but got to thinking if I make him hold to retrieve, would I still be able to just go out and play fetch at the park.

I don't want to have to make him sit and wait every throw until I say fetch if I'm just out relaxing at the park.

So I was thinking having his training "toys" and then say a tennis ball or something to play fetch with.
That way he would know the difference, the tennis ball would be play time, the training dummies, would mean training.

Is this going to confuse the dog, and does anyone else use a system such as this?

[Ryan]

Playing fetch is not a bad thing. At first play fetch with him until he brings it to hand. This may be fast it may take a while important thing is he is going out to get the dummy and turning around and coming back. Once he is retrieving to hand 100% of the time just stop him at first and restrain him when you make the throw and release him when you want.

This was the method I used on my dog.

Another way is to do it is to use a hallway. Close all the doors and sit in the end and throw the ball or dummy down the hallway. This way the puppy is going to get it and has to bring it back.

Just make sure he is fetching to hand before you start restraining him.

[Ayres]

I don't think it's a bad thing either.

Actually, because my dog loves playing fetch with toys so much, it made it so much easier getting through the final stages of FF training (once I finally realized what to do). I ended up getting a couple quail wings and some stiff rubberbands, snapped the wings firmly to the tennis ball. Then, when I threw the ball, Justus got a nose-full of quail scent and feathers. Still, the tennis ball was irresistable because he knew it was fun time and he retrieved it to hand. (Before doing this he usually got to the bird and just stood over it, kind of confused.) Transitioning from the tennis ball & wing combo to a fresh bird took no time at all after that.

I'm assuming that your pup will be around 8 weeks old when you bring it home. In that case, be sure to not make your playtime include any stress. Set the pup up to succeed right off the bat. If you're going to throw a toy for him, do it in a hallway so he has no choice but to run back to you. Then praise away.

Also, something to consider... I've heard that dogs who play with squeaky toys end up being more prone to chomp a bird on a retrieve, because squeezing the air out of the bird's lungs makes it squeak. I didn't know this when Justus was a pup and we gave him a ton of squeaky toys - and he never chomps birds. So I guess there's exceptions to everything.

[Ayres]

Another way is to do it is to use a hallway. Close all the doors and sit in the end and throw the ball or dummy down the hallway. This way the puppy is going to get it and has to bring it back.

Skimmed over this without comprehending it at the time. I guess you could say I agree!

[Ryan]

Ya the hallway is a good idea I seen in Gun Dog. As for sqeeky toys Bailey never really got any and she is fine.

Ayres Bailey was the same way she used to just stand over the shot bird(s) or point them. I bought a retriver and tied a few pheasant feathers to it and this cured my problem pretty quick.

[Ryan]

Sorry just wanted to add. If you decide to move the fetch to outside use snowfence to make a 15 foot by 4 foot hallway. Also at 8 weeks dont expect the pup to be doing grade "A" retrieves. He is a puppy and will get side tracked just like a toddler would. But he will catch on and eventually he will be doing huge retrieves that everyone has been posting about.

Remeber keep it short and never end any training what so ever with the pup in a bad mood. Keep it fun.

[Virgil]

I don't think I explained myself very well, let me try this again.

My question is not how to train a dog to fetch.

My plan for this dog like I said is some pointing, and some duck hunting.
Both of these will require the dog be steady until I call for him to fetch.
I don't want him running out of the blind on the first downed duck, with another set dropping in on the decoys.
I also don't want him jumping out of the boat to retrieve until I tell him to.

So my question is this. I have a good idea of how to train him to behave the way I want.
He will need to hold until given the command to fetch.
I can teach that, that's not a problem.

What I want is to be able to also go out and just play fetch at the park with him, get him some excersize.

I don't want to have to make him hold everytime I throw the ball though.
What I was wonding is if anyone else has a dog they have trained to only fetch on command. (through FF or whatever)
And if you still take him out to just play fetch in the park for excersize and play time?

Is throwing a ball and letting him just go get it going to mess up his training for hunting where I only want him to fetch on command?

[12 Volt Man]

I believe that throwing a ball or a dummy and just letting him chase could have a negative effect on your training.

With my two dogs I have worked alot on retrieving. In fact the way I do it, it teaches and reinforces the "whoa" command too.

I start in a hallway or small area. Throw a dummy and hold on to the dog I don't let them go after it till I release them. During this time I keep saying "whoa" It doesn't take long to get a pup to learn how to stand and wait for the release command.

Since you are in a small area like a hallway there isn't much place for the pup to go with the dummy except back to you. Praise the dog when he brings it back. Keep building on this till you are out in the yard. I can whoa my dogs anywhere, thow a dummy and they will wait till I tell them to fetch it. They bring it to my hand every time.

How does this translate to the field? Both dogs retrieve birds to hand. They won't need to be force fetched. One dog was broke to shot early on. I have stopped asking that of him and he has taken advantage of it. He breaks on the shot and sometimes the flush. Not a huge deal to me, because my dogs are NSTRA trial dogs and hunting dogs. I am going to work on getting both dogs steady to wing, shot and fall this spring and summer. Only because I think it is neat to see a fully finished dog.

That was a long answer, but yes you can play fetch. Just keep it controlled. My dogs love it, when it is warmer we do it every night. Sometimes I throw the bumper with both dogs on "whoa" then release them both, they love to race for the bumper. Other times I release only one dog and make the other watch. It keeps them on their toes.

[Buckeye_V]

Those are some excellant ideas!

[Ayres]

I agree with 12 Volt. Actually, that's what I do with my dog right now... woah, throw, release. I didn't always woah, though, especially when he was real young. No adverse effects. It's just that, once you start woah training and once you start FF training, don't allow the dog to break for a toy anymore.

Or, you can woah right from the start for consistency and to avoid any possible confusion for your dog. As for whether or not it will cause any problems for sure, it's a case-by-case basis on dogs. Some it would hurt, others it would not.

[Virgil]

It's just that, once you start woah training and once you start FF training, don't allow the dog to break for a toy anymore.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for.

[Yawallac]

I train the same as 12 Volt. The only thing that I add is the Retriever-R-Trainer. I use it at ponds and land. It helps to reinforce steadiness and adds the shot. Works great to help steady a dog and they really enjoy it. Plus it saves my aging arm!

[Buckeye_V]

Is that a dummy gun? The one that shoots the dummies with a blank round?

[Yawallac]

Yup.

[Ryan]

Yup.

I seen those I want to buy one. Another great tool of you dont have the money for one of them guns is the Chuck It.

http://www.justfordogs.co.uk/i/products ... hrower.jpg

I use it with Bailey you would be surpired on the extra range you can get out of it.