More patience when "hunting dead"

[Sorrytryagain]

My 5 year old Lab "Jack" works very fast. Which is ok most of the time since he still works nice and close. One thing that I have noticed is a lack of persistence when searching for dead or downed roosters. When a bird has time to bury themselves nice and deep before the retrieve, he sometimes requires a good amount of prodding to keep searching until he finds the bird. What frustrates me is that he is always on top of the bird, he just doesn't seem to look hard enough. Even more frustrating is when my Dad's dog comes up with the bird. This doesn't happen a lot, but I would still like to work on it. Does anyone have any drills to teach the pup a little more patience/persistence when retrieving a deep buried bird?

[Tall Boy]

Sounds like he just needs some enlightenment. Work him through a series of planted finds where the bird gets progressivley harder and harder to find. Like all training it takes baby steps and repetition to get it through that thick skull of theres what you want from them. If you show him how to do it, and prove to him that there's a bird there if he looks hard enough you should be okay,

[daniel77]

I've got a good friend who's a pro duck guide, and his big time female has a similar problem. She's jam up trained, but won't hunt on her own for very long. IMO, she's become so used to being handled that she now depends too much on the handler and goes looking for help after a minute or two. I agree with Tall Boy that you're gonna just have to put him in progressively harder situations, building his confidence that he can find the bird, as you go. I do have two questions, however. First, is he like my buddy's dog, and has a highly developed handle, and maybe lost some independence? Secondly, does he maybe lack a bit of drive or desire (you said he's fast, but they're not necessarily the same thing)? Either way, you're looking at the same solution. Build his confidence that he can find the birds. Once he starts to learn the game, his curiosity and desire to please should kick in. I've seen dogs that will tear apart a brush pile to get a duck buried in it, and darn near climb a tree to get a bird that is placed in a fork off of the ground. They need to see different scenarios over and over till they're just ate up to find that bird.

[Sorrytryagain]

I've got a good friend who's a pro duck guide, and his big time female has a similar problem. She's jam up trained, but won't hunt on her own for very long. IMO, she's become so used to being handled that she now depends too much on the handler and goes looking for help after a minute or two. I agree with Tall Boy that you're gonna just have to put him in progressively harder situations, building his confidence that he can find the bird, as you go. I do have two questions, however. First, is he like my buddy's dog, and has a highly developed handle, and maybe lost some independence? Secondly, does he maybe lack a bit of drive or desire (you said he's fast, but they're not necessarily the same thing)? Either way, you're looking at the same solution. Build his confidence that he can find the birds. Once he starts to learn the game, his curiosity and desire to please should kick in. I've seen dogs that will tear apart a brush pile to get a duck buried in it, and darn near climb a tree to get a bird that is placed in a fork off of the ground. They need to see different scenarios over and over till they're just ate up to find that bird.

Jack, My lab, doesn't get much direction in the field, he knows where the birds are so I try to stay hands off. He has his basic obedience, fetch, and that is about it. He has hand signals, but again they are only for the basic obedience commands. I do have a "hup" call for when he starts to chase a running rooster. It works about 50/50. He has always worked pretty close in so I don't have to call him in very often. As for his hunt drive, this dog is off his rocker. He shook and squealed for an hour straight while we waited legal hunting time on the opener. I wish he would actually calm down, he has spooked late season roosters before I am even out of the truck. Most of the time he retrieves pretty aggressively. It just seems to be the birds buried deep that give him some problems.

I think both of you guys are one the right track with what I need to do as far as training goes. Is it ok to use a dummy with scent? I live in the middle of Minneapolis and I am not sure what my neighbors would think about me hiding a dead bird around the neighborhood. Also, it seems the I have the most problems in the "cats" with at least a foot of snow. Would it make sense to start burying dummies/birds in the snow?
One more question. I hunt mostly with my dad and his Lab. His lab is not the most well behaved little bugger, but he is persistent, and seems to come up with the birds no matter what. Would it be ok to hold his dog back to make sure mine makes the retrieve, even if it requires a little prodding?

Thanks for your guys' input.

[SeniorCoot]

Good anser Tall Boy- we had similar problem when we brought our 2 yr old into field to hunt up three ducks that we could not find in a field last Sun. he ran around searching for birds like he does in pheasant hunting-BUT didn't seem to get what the game was- my wife suggested taking another dead duck and thorwing it like a bumper and have him find it- he did and then found all three cripples which had crawled off from down spot. Some times problems have simple answer.