Help with teaching WHOA

[Missourihunter85]

I’m working with my 1 ½ year old brittany pup and I’m having a bit of trouble with his whoa. He knows what whoa means, but the problem is when I say “Whoa” he’ll come to me, then I’ll hold continuous stimulation and place him back where I originally told him to whoa and he’ll hold in that spot so I know that he knows what it means he just won’t stop in place. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Meller]

Where are you in missouri; it sounds like he is confusing whoa with here.

[Missourihunter85]

Eastern Missouri, that's what I was thinking but i'm just not sure how to seperate the two commands and show him that when I say whoa he's suppose to stop in place

[CherrystoneWeims]

I recommend that you read Maurice Lindley's book Training With Mo. In it you will learn how to use birds to teach your dog to whoa.

[snips]

I would lay off the ecollar. Just set him back and stroke him if he comes. Electricity can cause too much stress to some dogs, better reinforcing with small correction and stroke to let them know what you want.

[Missourihunter85]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Snips - I have stopped using the collar for WHOA now, and seems to help keep him a bit calmer during training, he doesn’t seem to get as frustrated, but still haven't got the point across yet, but we're working on it. I watched a George Hickcox movie and saw something that made a whole lot of sense to me, so I'm working that angle also. He was saying that he teaches the kennel command as a way to teach the dog that he can turn off the stimulation by doing what I ask instead of seeing me as a "safe spot" where when he's next to me the collar turns off. So I’m teaching him LOAD into the dog box, and he’s catching on very fast.

CherrystoneWeims - Thanks for the recommendation, sounds like a good book to look into.

[snips]

When you release him just make sure you either go back to him and tap, or just say OK, or hit a whistle...If you call him to you it can cause confusion on the release...I just put a collar around their rear to set them back if they move foreward. (not ecollar).

[Will]

I think the coming to you is a sign that he is confused and feeling some stress/pressure. Coming to you when called has made you happy and he finds that coming to you is good for him too. He may not know the whoa command well enough yet. I agree with just putting him back and enforcing the command "whoa". He will learn this way.

[Sprig]

some good advice given. I would go back and work him for a few weeks with just a leash around his belly and neck and work on whoa some more. adding the collar adds a lot of pressure to the dog and will often show where more work needs to be done. i would also check and see if the e-collar setting was too hot for the dog. has the dog been properly e-collar conditioned before whoa?

[GSPRubi]

you might also try the buddy stick. i learned about it in my george hickox video and i'm currently using it to train my dog. you get a 6' piece of pvc pipe 3/4 or 1" and put a cap on it. i then drilled a small hole in the middle and screwed an eye bolt in and put a clip on the end. you latch it onto the dog and have more control with them. you can walk around it, in front of it and if they move after you say whoa you nudge them with the stick and put them back where they were. might help with your problem of your dog coming to you where you can hold them where they are better. good luck!

[Tall Boy]

I think the coming to you is a sign that he is confused and feeling some stress/pressure. Coming to you when called has made you happy and he finds that coming to you is good for him too. He may not know the whoa command well enough yet. I agree with just putting him back and enforcing the command "whoa". He will learn this way.

Yes. Teaching "whoa" is a progression. You must slowly increase the distance you stop the dog, going back to sucessful distances if the dog balks. He is unsure of what you want from him, I see it all the time.

DO NOT use the ecollar until the dog is near flawless on a c.c. When you begin the OVERLAYING process combine a "nick" or temporary continuous stim with the c.c., sometimes using just the c.c. Take your time, and be patient...it's a process!

Once you get your hands on the dog, do not continue shocking him. I suggest you stay away from the continuous stim, use the nick, it mimicks the c.c. better. A dog is a lot more sensitive to prolonged stim than a momentary stim.

[4dabirds]

hi missouri hunter It seems to me you are a little early on using the ecollr. If your dog does not respond to the word whoa 8 out of 10 times , that is walking running while coming and going away from you he does not understand the command. The reason he comes to you is you have made yourself the safe zone , the pressure comes off when he is at your side. The dog does not understand the nuances of whoa standing ,running, going, coming you have to teach him what you want in each situation, and in differant locations (generilization). Dogs are place oriented . Get a 2 foot x3 foot piece of plywood walk your dog onto the plywood say whoa. He will associate the place with the command. Once he is stopping on the board run him to the board then place the board between you and him. keep changing the situation. Use the buddy stick with him on the board so you can walk around him. If he comes off the board put him back on. Thereis no need to correct the dog because you are teaching him. lots of praise when he is on the board. I learned all of this from george hickox videos/seminars and it works great. The teaching the dog to turn off the collar is imperitive. The safe zone becomes the compliance of the command. Pay close attention to weather you should command stimulate or stimulat command and you will do great Good luck.

[rkappes]

I take Jersey for a 30 minute walk every morning around the neighborhood so I figured since she was leashed I would work on the WHOA command and other commands. I would randomly just WHOA her and walk around her/in front of her, pet/praise her, etc.. and then release her with an OK. After work when I have her out running I'll give her a WHOA and she stops and holds until I get up to her, she's not 100% steady yet on live birds but she's coming along pretty good. I figured if I could integrate WHOA throughout the day while doing different things that she would learn it and it would transfer over to the field.
Probably not the correct way or conventional way but seems to have worked pretty good for me so far.

[Will]

I take Jersey for a 30 minute walk every morning around the neighborhood so I figured since she was leashed I would work on the WHOA command and other commands. I would randomly just WHOA her and walk around her/in front of her, pet/praise her, etc.. and then release her with an OK. After work when I have her out running I'll give her a WHOA and she stops and holds until I get up to her, she's not 100% steady yet on live birds but she's coming along pretty good. I figured if I could integrate WHOA throughout the day while doing different things that she would learn it and it would transfer over to the field.
Probably not the correct way or conventional way but seems to have worked pretty good for me so far.

I wouldn't say that it's not correct or conventional at all. I'd say it's "condtitioning" for the command before you formalize it. I do the same thing using the wonder lead when I'm training "heel". I condition for "whoa". I think it's a great way to prepare for the many formalized methods of whoa breaking.

[daniel77]

My setter pup is only 10 months old, and I'm just starting to get a step or two beyond what I'd consider having introduced commands. I've been having a similar issue with him, in that he whoas great alongside me, but not yet while out away from me. I don't consider this a problem, as we simply haven't gotten that far in his training yet, and I planned to coincide a bit more whoa along with FFing for his first season, which is still two months away. Right now, I can pretty much make him stay wherever he is, if he is already stopped, but can't yet make him stop and stay. What I've been doing recently is the whoa post, or more correctly, making a half hitch around his belly with the CC and tying it to various objects, car bumper, fence post, tree, etc. so that he gets used to it and expects it in many different places and situations and will soon be second nature. I also carry along a long leash of about 12 feet. This leash is my mainstay when intro'ing commands. I lead him around within the slack of the tied CC and give him the whoa, just before he hits the end of it. He no longer hits the end. I can now get him to whoa easily at the long end of my 12 ft leash. Before long, I'll essentially use 2 CCs and get him whoaing out a bit further. Then just one, and I become the post as he's running. Until he's doing that fairly well, and I can see him catching himself before making a mistake, I wouldn't begin to use the juice, but then, my dog is very soft. FWIW

[snips]

Some setters can be very immature, I would not worry a bit about just waiting awhile...A yr to year and 1/2 for a setter is what I consider normal....Too much pressure on a str too early can have definite backlash....

[Saltriver]

Missourihunter and daniel,

I prefere not to use boards or posts as it adds another transition to get away from eventually. the biggest issue in both cases is making sure that the dog completely understands the command and understands that to turn the pressure off (the collar) that it must stop moving. this is done with lots of repitition at your side from the heel position with LOW stimulation after the dog understands the command. only when the dog truly knows how to turn that pressure off is it time to start having the dog whoa away from you. this can be a bit confusing for the dog and using the lead on the collar to help stop the dog as well right in front of you. then you slowly start extending the distance. missourihunter, if you want to come up i can show you and you should be able to transistion in a week or so if the dog already truly understands the command.

justin

[nooblet]

or you could just not teach whoa. but that's my personal bias.

[daniel77]

Some setters can be very immature, I would not worry a bit about just waiting awhile...A yr to year and 1/2 for a setter is what I consider normal....Too much pressure on a str too early can have definite backlash....

Thanks, I've been waiting patiently, and am still taking things very low key ( very little or essentially no pressure) and watching him closely to be sure that I don't push too far and suffer that backlash. I must say that I've never had a dog so long that I'd done so little with. This pointing dog thing sure involves a bunch of waiting. It's almost as bad as buying a newly weaned colt and having to wait another year and a half to see what you've got.

[A/C Guy]

Snips - I have stopped using the collar for WHOA now, and seems to help keep him a bit calmer during training, he doesn’t seem to get as frustrated, but still haven't got the point across yet, but we're working on it..

It sounds like you were stimulating him when you commanded "whoa". Many dogs equate stimulation with "come" because that is the first lesson with the e collar.