Grifon won't hunt after a shot

[NavyP-3]

So my WPG missed her first year of training due to a military mobilization. She got a little training, exposure to the guns and two quail in January.

She went to the trainer in May, and has been back and forth between there and home since then. She has really become a good pointer, but the trainer called me last week and said that he can't get passed some weird behavior. If she points and the bird flushes, she is all over it. However, when she points, the bird flushes and a shot is fired anywhere within 20 yards, she doesn't follow, fetch or want to hunt anymore. I suggested taking her home and starting the gun training over, but he says she is not gun-shy and she understands what is going on.

I am at a loss. This dog was not cheap and neither was training; I don't want to give up on her but i am very frustrated; this was supposed to be my year to hunt birds and now i don't have a dog.

My plan is to take her home, give her lots of love and slowly get back into training and ease into the gun as slowly as needed. If she just won't come around, I plan on getting rid of her to a nice family that likes pointers but only hunts birds with a bow and arrow, then get myself a lab.

Any experience or suggestions would help.

Best Regards,


Steve

[ACooper]

Sure sounds like gun sensitivity to me, I would go get the dog.

[Sharon]

She's responding inappropriately to the gun. That is gun shy. She's shutting down so she doesn't have to hear another shot. Very creative and smart actually as most dogs just bolt.

There's no value in blaming anyone , but if you only had her in January and he had her most of the months after that ..............................There's no need for a gun shy dog if trained properly. jmo


Bring the dog home. In 2 weeks start gun training correctly all over again and keep your fingers crossed.
You've put a lot of money into the dog and the trainer. It's worth another try. Good luck.

[Sprig]

sounds like gunshyness to me. I would take some time off for the dog, maybe a month or so and then work the dog on a ton of flyaway pigeons and get the dog really birdy and slowly, ever so slowly start working the dog around guns, at a distance at first, as the birds are flying off and the dog is chasing it. be patient, gunshyness is something that needs to be worked out on the dogs time frame.

[kninebirddog]

Going by what and how you posted

The gun shot has become a very negative thing to your dog

If she will chase a bird you still should have a chance...Go get the dog as if the trainer can't figure out and I would also have to question how long this has been going on ? does the trainer know te key thing which cause this behavior to start?

This is what I would do...get lots of pigeons or access to....let her point then flush let her chase and have someone start way at least 100 yds off shooting one shot in the opposite direction of which way she is chasing after the bird..do this with a shotgun not a blank gun..why i say shotgun over a blank the shotgun noise will be more directional versus the all over crack of the blank
observe when the shot is made her action or reaction...in either case do not say a word let her do her thing if she stop looks back or shuts down..ignore her..the worst thing you can do is console and pet her as to the dog this is only rewarding the scared behavior

if there is no reaction and the dog is happy call it a session and stop let her sit on a chain gang or stake out for at least 15 minutes. If you can get her around other dogs that are trained and excited about the goings on ..go out work with another dog leave her on the stake out

then if you can do some backing where the dog is way off but can watch as another dog has a bird shot for them ..

then back to the chain gang/stake out

Object one good small session and then end on good note let dog have time to absorb the session


Take your time with this if things go great then do it one more time the same way then next day try getting closer by 10 yds still have shotgun aimed the opposite direction of the dog in chase

As you work your way to shotgun range then slowly bring the one shot towards the same direction

key points is to observe the dogs action/reaction to the shot but after a routine of everything being good when it comes to that shot over head the dog should be in a new routine of shot and birds are good

On the backing exercises after a few times of everything going good then when the bird is shot for the other dog have a dead bird with you and toss it for your dog for a controlled retrieve

if you have any questions or you see a reaction...I would seek someone who has experience in getting a dog over being gunshy

[Greg Jennings]

Ditto. There is really no other explanation. Don't know what the pro is thinking.

[outdrs111]

You have gotten a lot of good advice here, and good insights. Your dog has a problem with the gun.

I don't understand the trainer....he should be picking up on this. Dogs learn both good and bad by association, so it your and the trainer's job to figure it out. Don't blame the dog. I have a friend whose Viszla was returned gun shy from training. Of course the trainer denied any responsibility.

I suspect the dog was rushed, so you need to go back to basics as far as necesssary and create positive associations.

My one concern here, and I'll be brutally frank, is that you're in a hurry to hunt the dog, and not willing to invest in him. If that's the case, give him up to someone who is willing to put the time in.

I hope it works out for you.

[adogslife]

Pro?
From the sounds of the post the "pro" doesn't seem to have an answer for this:

but the trainer called me last week and said that he can't get passed some weird behavior.

but he says she is not gun-shy and she understands what is going on.

:roll:

[nooblet]

well, I hope you figure that out bro. that doesnt sound good. i bet your dog has associated the gunshot with "i've done something wrong." she hunts hard up to the shot - she must think she's made an error. good luck with that dude.

[NavyP-3]

Gents,

Thanks for the replies.

I think I may of been a little off the mark when I quoted my trainer. She has since made progress and I pick her up tomorrow with the advice to go ahead and hunt her but let her relax and become part of the family for a little while.

I think her problems stem from two things; #1) I got mobilized and she did not get early training soon enough. I think that since my Lab accustomed to the gun in one afternoon, that she did to after I took her shooting; other folks were shooting and a started her 100 yards away and gave her a biscuit every time someone shot. In an hour she was within a few yrds of the shooters and didn't seem to mind. The next day, we got some quail and shot them over her. Even though she was very birdy for the firt bird, she wasn't excited after the first shot but we encouraged her to go out for a second; she pointed it, but didn't want to pursue and more. I thought that 5 months between then and going to the trainer, she was okay; apparently not. That, i think is 90% of the problem; she didn't get going early enough and I wasn't slow enough on the gun training.

#2 She was in the kennel too much at training. I have spoken to several Griff people and they say that if they are not part of the family, they tend to shut down a little.

I have watched my trainer and talked to many people that know him, and I don't think that he was forcing her. He was the one that kept saying, "Let me keep her a little longer, you can't push the Griffs.

The last thing is that I may not be willing to do the work with her. I have a full time job, 3 kids and one due at the end of the month. I don't have a place where I can easily shoot a gun off and I don't have the first clue about keeping pigeons, chukar, quail etc. Another issue is her swimming; I posted last year and took the advice to wait etc. I did, and she will swim with me in the pond, but I am unsure about how willing she will be to hunt in the colder water of a Colorado December. I mostly want to hunt ducks.

When we lost our Goldendoodle, I really (read REALLY) wanted a lab, but my wife insisted on a dog that did not shed. I bought off on the Griffon without really knowing what I was getting into. I trained my first lab myself and he became a great hunter - take a line, hand signals, blind retrieves etc. I have ponds out back and some fields as well and I know that i can make a lab a great hunter with the resources I have.

Bottome line: I need to check my attitude and see if I am willing to do what it takes to make Cricket work.

As outdrs11 said;

My one concern here, and I'll be brutally frank, is that you're in a hurry to hunt the dog, and not willing to invest in him. If that's the case, give him up to someone who is willing to put the time in.

I am not so much in a hurry to hunt, but I maybe in a hurry to give up on pointers and get a lab.

Thanks for a ll the advice and your time to help me out.

Good Hunting,

Steve

[postoakshorthairs]

First of all, thank you for your service. I don't want you to take what i'm going to type personally but:

I think her problems stem from two things; #1) I got mobilized and she did not get early training soon enough. I think that since my Lab accustomed to the gun in one afternoon, that she did to after I took her shooting; other folks were shooting and a started her 100 yards away and gave her a biscuit every time someone shot. In an hour she was within a few yrds of the shooters and didn't seem to mind. The next day, we got some quail and shot them over her. Even though she was very birdy for the firt bird, she wasn't excited after the first shot but we encouraged her to go out for a second; she pointed it, but didn't want to pursue and more. I thought that 5 months between then and going to the trainer, she was okay; apparently not. That, i think is 90% of the problem; she didn't get going early enough and I wasn't slow enough on the gun training.

Frankly it sounds like you're the one that created the initial problem. I'm not a "pro" and others may disagree but giving a dog a biscuit because they don't bolt when a gun is shot is NOT my idea of introduction to the gun. Getting a dog bird crazy then slowly introducing the gun with the bird is more up my alley. I would think if the dog loves birds you could get the dogs interest in birds up again then slowly reintroduce the gun from a distance until you could shoot over her.

If you don't have time or she doesn't fit your style of hunting then find her a nice home where they have the time to invest.

Good luck...and again thank you for your service.

[Greg Jennings]

The gun introduction process made the dog gun shy.

[NavyP-3]

First of all, thank you for your service. I don't want you to take what i'm going to type personally but:

I think her problems stem from two things; #1) I got mobilized and she did not get early training soon enough. I think that since my Lab accustomed to the gun in one afternoon, that she did to after I took her shooting; other folks were shooting and a started her 100 yards away and gave her a biscuit every time someone shot. In an hour she was within a few yrds of the shooters and didn't seem to mind. The next day, we got some quail and shot them over her. Even though she was very birdy for the firt bird, she wasn't excited after the first shot but we encouraged her to go out for a second; she pointed it, but didn't want to pursue and more. I thought that 5 months between then and going to the trainer, she was okay; apparently not. That, i think is 90% of the problem; she didn't get going early enough and I wasn't slow enough on the gun training.

Frankly it sounds like you're the one that created the initial problem. I'm not a "pro" and others may disagree but giving a dog a biscuit because they don't bolt when a gun is shot is NOT my idea of introduction to the gun. Getting a dog bird crazy then slowly introducing the gun with the bird is more up my alley. I would think if the dog loves birds you could get the dogs interest in birds up again then slowly reintroduce the gun from a distance until you could shoot over her.

If you don't have time or she doesn't fit your style of hunting then find her a nice home where they have the time to invest.

Good luck...and again thank you for your service.

No problem. You are simply agreeing with what I said; I was/am the problem. My trainer has told me that he has made a lot of progress with her in the last two weeks and most importantly, "She loves to point and wants to please."

I think I can work with that, albeit very slowly and having a lot of fun.

Thanks again.

Steve

[outdrs111]

Hello Steve,

I give you a lot of credit for hearing what many here said, and stepping back and taking responsibility for your partner.

It takes a big man to do that. I wish you well with her. I think you'll both be just fine.

Tom

[NavyP-3]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for all your help.

Cricket pointed several birds at the trainers on Monday. She handled the retrieves
and gunshots well and kept hunting like a champ.

However, she is not excited about swimming at all, my trainer said that she wouldn't hunt
dead without marking the bird and that more than one gun would really freak her out. In addition,
she is not interested in swimming and I hunt ducks almost exclusively; our hunting styles do not
mesh.

Combine that with the baby coming, uncertain hunting days, a lack of time, finesse and knowledge,
and it has led me to the conclusion that I need to find her a good home.

I spoke with her breeder yesterday and is going to take her back and find a good home for her. He is very
involved in the Griffon community and we are both sure that he can find someone who would like to
hunt upland birds with her and spend more time with her than I can give.

She is a sweet dog and this was not an easy decision, but I think it is the right one.

I will be researching Labs for the next month or two and find one that will fit my hunting and our family well.

If anybody is interested in Cricket after reading this, shoot me an e-mail and we can talk.

Thanks again for your time and advice and I wish you all good hunting.

Best Regards,

Steve

stevemitchellcolorado@hotmail.com

[kninebirddog]

Glad you called the breeder...

You might consider getting a well started dog...This way you know what you are getting ...Yes you will pay more but you won't have the puppy time and the trainer time before you find out the dog may not fit into your life again

[NavyP-3]

I think a puppy is definitely something that we want, just not right now, and not a pointer.

Goose, my first hunting dog was a yellow lab. He was a nuclear reaction and was off the hook when we turned onto a gravel road or in the duck blind; if he couldn't see decoys, he was all over the place. But man could he hunt. We worked together a lot when I first got him and he learned fast. He would take a line, a cast, do blind retrieves, multiple marks etc. I can't recall all the birds he saved for me while hunting. Goose hunted for my brother the year I was deployed during hunting season and years later at his wedding, his friends were exciting to talk to me about what a great retriever he was. I don't necessarily expect the perfect dog, Goose sure wasn't, but I know I can train a lab myself and I don't want to miss that bonding experience.

Chloe, my litle girl, joins us in less than two weeks, and for her first few months, I don't want to worry about dogs.

Steve