Gun Dog Forum

Now that puppy has put the muscle on (almost 30 lbs at 5.5 months), my wife can no longer take puppy for a walk. I can, but she LOVES to pull the end of the leash. We tried a "halty" (basically a muzzle) but all she does is fight it. Any other ideas for helping the "little" girl walk nicely. And yes, I do recognize all she is trying to do is hunt... but that doesn't help in the current situation.

thank

A choke chain and a basic obedience class. Just opt not to teach the sit... A dog that won;t walk nicely on a leash is a PITA (Pain In The A$$) to have around. They all need to learn some basic manners.

Ditto on the obedience classes. I use a pinch/prong collar instead of a choke. When used correctly, it is a very effective collar and put equal pressure on the neck. Chokes can do tracheal damage...

Another option is a Smith Wonderlead. It should not take a long time to get a dog to walk with you ... use any of the tools as described and change directions a lot, do not pull. "pop" the leade to create stimulation.

Pinch collar and basic leash training. Pup is telling you it's time. He DOES NOT get to start dragging humans around.

He might also benefit from some short sessions on a tether/chain with a flat collar. Needs to learn that leash/tether means he stays put or stays with his human.

Watch a couple "Dog Whisperer" episodes (Nat. Geo. channel). Time to exert some leadership.

jlp8cornell wrote:Ditto on the obedience classes. I use a pinch/prong collar instead of a choke. When used correctly, it is a very effective collar and put equal pressure on the neck. Chokes can do tracheal damage...

Choke chains can also damage the thyroid gland in the neck.

BigShooter wrote:
Choke chains can also damage the thyroid gland in the neck.

Yep. You can usually get a Herm Sprenger prong collar on ebay for pretty cheap.

How bout a flexi-lead, so pup can run around a bit while walking.

Qwernt wrote:Now that puppy has put the muscle on (almost 30 lbs at 5.5 months), my wife can no longer take puppy for a walk. I can, but she LOVES to pull the end of the leash. We tried a "halty" (basically a muzzle) but all she does is fight it. Any other ideas for helping the "little" girl walk nicely. And yes, I do recognize all she is trying to do is hunt... but that doesn't help in the current situation.

thank

More likely she's asserting herself as pack leader. You must assume that role, and make sure your wife then is given the same respect. Most obedience classes aren't geared for a well driven gundog. They teach & reward, and that's a good start. It just won't do what you need done, and that is to formalize basic obedience. This kid is probably just the kind of pup you were hoping for, and will be a fine gundog once she's trained.

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?pi=0&p ... 0&sq=&dm=1

EvanG

I like to take the rope/leash and hook to collar then run it down the back and then loop it around the back. This will tighten as the dog pulls and become uncomfortable for him. I like this because I am not jerking his neck around when for walks or even out hunting. Dog will learn if it doesn't pull it won't tighten up.

Chukar12 wrote:Another option is a Smith Wonderlead. It should not take a long time to get a dog to walk with you ... use any of the tools as described and change directions a lot, do not pull. "pop" the leade to create stimulation.

Not much has been explained about this lead. It's basically a loop on the end of a very stiff rope. It's placed around the neck, directly behind the skull. The lead is held more vertically. Even very strong dogs stop pulling almost immediately. It's often said you'll "wonder" how you ever got along without it. So it's easy to remember me - "Wonderlead". It works two ways, when a dog pulls the loop is pulled closed and the airway is restricted. Also when pulled vertically the lead rubs the back of the dog's head, a sensitive area. In tougher cases it can be placed over one ear, another even more sensitive area. The lead is stiff so it releases immediately when the dog stops pulling.

I didn't really do anything fancy to teach my dogs to heel. If they forged ahead, I'd pop the leash and stop. They eventually figured it out. I never let them pull steadily - as soon as the leash went taut - pop and stop. I'd accompany it with an 'EH', so eventually if they got too far out, I'd only have to say something and they'd back off before the leash got tight.

I also found that changing direction a LOT helps. First, you're telling the dog that YOU decide which direction the both of you are headed. As long as it's pulling ahead, they think they're the ones dictating direction. Second, it keeps the dog guessing as to when the next turn is going to come, so it's not quite as likely to forge ahead and more likely to keep an eye on you for a cue.

phermes1 wrote:I didn't really do anything fancy to teach my dogs to heel. If they forged ahead, I'd pop the leash and stop. They eventually figured it out. I never let them pull steadily - as soon as the leash went taut - pop and stop. I'd accompany it with an 'EH', so eventually if they got too far out, I'd only have to say something and they'd back off before the leash got tight.

I also found that changing direction a LOT helps. First, you're telling the dog that YOU decide which direction the both of you are headed. As long as it's pulling ahead, they think they're the ones dictating direction. Second, it keeps the dog guessing as to when the next turn is going to come, so it's not quite as likely to forge ahead and more likely to keep an eye on you for a cue.

All good stuff. When I was training the last dominant mutt we had, I started "crazy walking" occasionally to get him to attend to me. It helped the training every time. Neighbors probably thought I was drunk, but it helped the training.

At 5.5 months, you are still in the "conditioning" stage. Pup is not being trained as a draft dog, however, and needs to respect your wife as much as you.

I agree with all that has been said. The pup can't lean on a tug, like he can a steady pull. There can be more than one tug in a row also, if the dog hasn't gotten back where he should be, just don't allow a steady pull, cause the dog will only pull back. Whenever he takes his attention off of you, change direction sharply. He'll learn.
I've always just used a regular flat collar for this in the beginning. IMO, if you're doing damage to the dog (trachea, skin, thyroid) you're pulling/tugging WAY TOO HARD. Choke chains are great, but they must be put on correctly for them to release when you release. Put on backwards, they do not release well and will "choke" the dog. For a dog healing on the left, the chain should form the letter "P" for perfect when you put it on. In other words, the loop that you'll hook your leash to will be hanging strait down. If it forms a "9", then it isn't releasing. For a dog on the right side, it should form a "9", and not a "P".

+1 on the Wonder Lead. Make sure it is high on the neck just behind the ears. If she continues to fight it put it over one ear, you will be amazed at the control you have. As phermes1 said, when she starts to pull ahead give it a pop and stop walking. Don't lean on it and pull, just a quick pop. Don't say anything, pretty soon dog will learn. It also helps to change direction a lot so the dog has to pay attention to you. With the dog on your left, a lot of left turns will teach the dog to stay with you. It worked for me, but took time. Make sure that you and your wife are consistent with the expectations and corrections. Does the dog behave differently when you walk her?

In the short run, taking the cord or leash from the collar and doing a half hitch around the dog's waist WILL stop the dog from pulling. They really do not like that sensation. For some dogs, that might be all you need to convince them to quit pulling. I have seen seventy pound all age field trial pointers that are powerful enough to snatch a 200 pound man off their feet, being walked quietly to the line with the belly hitch. It works.

I am an advocate of Heel/Whoa training, after the manner of Paul Long, and I use a pigging string which is a poor man's version of the Smith wonder lead. I like it better than a prong collar because the spring action of the waxed rope instantly releases the pressure when the dog complies and it is a milder form of discipline. If the wonder lead does not work, you can always ratchet it up to the prong, pinch or choke collar,as necessary.

At five months, and exhibiting the type behavior you describe, the dog is certainly a candidate for heel/whoa training or basic obedience, whichever you prefer.

RayG

RayGubernat wrote:I use a pigging string which is a poor man's version of the Smith wonder lead. I like it better than a prong collar because the spring action of the waxed rope instantly releases the pressure when the dog complies and it is a milder form of discipline.

RayG

Hey, Ray, could you describe the "pigging string" a little more? Where would I find such a critter?

I do like the half-hitch idea as well - makes good sense and easily available, just loop the CC.

jkoehler wrote:I like to take the rope/leash and hook to collar then run it down the back and then loop it around the back. This will tighten as the dog pulls and become uncomfortable for him. I like this because I am not jerking his neck around when for walks or even out hunting. Dog will learn if it doesn't pull it won't tighten up.

Have never found anything better than just using the half hitch around the waist of the dog. Works perfect, no extra expensive equipment to buy or carry, so makes sense to me and works well for the dog.

Ezzy

The half hitch makes a nice suitcase handle too in case you need to lift the dog to move it back during steadiness training. One issue about the half-hitch around the belly is the rope pressure point is further back on the dog, making it easier for the dog to get a little further ahead and no longer match their foreleg to your leg. For a stronger person you can hold your rope arm back further. However this is not an option for someone with less arm strength.

I am pretty sure that the wonderlead was "borrowed' from a pigging string. But it works great, as does a choke chain and prong collar. If your only worried about walking the belly hitch is ok, but if you want your dog to heel then teach it just as was suggested

No pulling

Sharp quick tugs or pops then release

Change of directions

Also vary your speed, this really shows if the dog is paying attention. The dog should speed up and slow down with you, heel is a position no more no less.

Chukar12 wrote: use any of the tools as described and change directions a lot, do not pull. "pop" the leade to create stimulation.

I have been taking my pup on walks most days. Today I did the change direction trick on the way home. He knew we were going home and he wanted to get there so he was pulling. When he pulled I changed directions and commanded heel and went the other way. Eventually he figured out that Heel meant next to me, when I commanded heel he would slow down so that I would not change directions.

Thanks All.

I have tried the "switch directions often" approach and her response was simple, after she realizes which direction we are going, 100% sprint that direction (to the end of the 5' line and pop - but didn't care).

I tried the 1/2 hitch around the flank (before posting the question here). While it does keep her from getting ahead of me, if she makes a sudden move (sees a rabbit, etc), it tightens extremely quickly and she goes balistic in pain/fear/etc. Also, since the rope comes out her back, it is extremely difficult to control her head away from sniffing.

I ended up going with a "Easy Walker" harness. Basically it wrapps the front legs and front torso, with the lead going out the front. If I pull right it applies pressure to her left leg in such a way as to encourage her to slow down. Works great, except after the first walk she REALLY doesn't want to wear it - would rather not go for a walk than wear it (before, when she saw the leash she would get excited, not any more)... to the point of it appears she thinks it is punishment - ie, makes me wonder about calling her over and then putting it on...

Not sure I like this solution, so, would be happy to have a better one. We are signing her up for obedience, etc.

I don't know this for sure because I am not there, but it sounds like you are getting faked out a bit here. The Smith Wonderlead or a "pigging string" aren't going to hurt that puppy, though the puppy sounds like she will want you to think it will. Use one of the tools above high on the neck right below the ears and make that puppy heel and stop at your knee consistently 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the evening. If she resists greatly lift her front feet off the ground using the lead and spin her...then place her back in place and walk, change direction and stop again. With the lead on the neck you have control, execrcise that control in silence.

The problem with harnesses is that they attach at the chest and dogs can easily pull with their chest, that is how its done. The neck and right below the ears will get you the control you need.

You are experiencing the first reaction to being corrected. If it hurts the pup so much the better as long as you are letting her hurt herself and you ignore it.. It might take three or four days for her to learn but she will and then she will be ready to go again just like she has in the past but will walk with you instead of leading you where she wants to go.

You will not find a training method that works that doesn't include some negative reactions to bad behavior and some positive reactions on your part to good behavior. That is how training is supposed to work. This why they call it training and not coaxing.

Ezzy

AzHusker wrote:

RayGubernat wrote:I use a pigging string which is a poor man's version of the Smith wonder lead. I like it better than a prong collar because the spring action of the waxed rope instantly releases the pressure when the dog complies and it is a milder form of discipline.

RayG

Hey, Ray, could you describe the "pigging string" a little more? Where would I find such a critter?

I do like the half-hitch idea as well - makes good sense and easily available, just loop the CC.

Hey AZ,

I'm not Ray, but a piggin string is what the calf ropers use in rodeos to tie the calf's legs together after they are roped. You should be able to find one anywhere lassoes are sold. I found these by typing piggin string into my search engine. http://www.smithbrothers.com/category.a ... 1286248252

I think I'll order one of the youth strings, as they are 5 1/2 feet in length.

Cheryl

Yep. wonder lead and obedience classes. Great for socialization too.

Instead of a sidewalk find a park. Make many fast 90 degree turns. The pup will start watching you to be ready which works well into heelling. Clicker training works well for heeling too.