Beginning to have Doubts...

[BillGraves]

Hi everyone,

I acquired a 5 yr. old male GSP in November and would like him to be a hunting buddy. I have been working with him in the yard on Whoa, Here, Heel and he is doing well on a CC. I have e-collar conditioned him and he works well on that as well. My problem is that he goes BONKERS when he sees any type of game; squirrel, rabbit, robins in the yard. This happens on walks, in the yard, in the field, anywhere. By bonkers, I mean he barks his head off, runs around like a crazy buffoon, stops to see the animal again then goes ballistic again. When he is like this, he cannot be called off or silenced. One time, I had him on a leash walking him in the morning and he saw a squirrel. He went nuts and the only way I could get him to quit making noise was to hold his mouth closed. He was still barking but it was muffled in his mouth. I am having doubts that he will ever made a bird dog because of this obnoxious habit. Any thoughts on if I'll be able to break him of this and get him in the grouse woods in the fall?

Thanks.

Bill

[Ridge-Point]

Have you had him on birds? Does he point?

[kninebirddog]

When you are on your walks are the constructive walks where you are in control of the walk or does he get to sniff around and do his own thing

If you have control of the walks he will be paying attention to you and the very moment he redirects to something else give a good attention getting jerk on the lead enough to get his attention redirected back at you stop do a 180 if you have to a few times Get on him until you have his attention..I know with some dogs it can be very hard specially with ones that go off their rocker in prey mode

then as asked in previous post have you had him on birds will he point scent

if you have a hard time here...I would try and find someone that can assist you and show you some things to work on..I like the rick smith method the west method is also good about getting field obedience

good Luck

[BillGraves]

The walks are under control. He has a prong collar on and is not allowed anywhere in front of me or he gets popped. He doesn't still hasn't figured it out though. I take him for regular walks and still he is trying to pull ahead even with a choke or prong collar on. I have also used the e-collar while walking because my arm got so tired of popping him with the leash. I have tried the stop method, the turn a 180 method, he just wants to pull ahead.

As for birds, I have not had him on birds yet. I haven't had the time recently, but I am a teacher and it is the summer so it should happen very shortly. I have a guy that has trained before and has access to birds and he said he is willing to help me out. He just moved though so his life is crazy.

[kninebirddog]

OK just by going on what you say..you dog is on a leash but isn't really going with you he is doing his own thing when you describe the turning is the real picture right there we only do stuff right as long as it is headed the way I want to go is basically what he is telling you..the prong collar actually a dog can brace against which renders it useless as you have already experienced

I prefer the Command lead..having this high in the crook of the head & neck area you actually have much more control on a dog and being stiff you can begin to use a loose lead and when needed can get their attention as there is no slack to have to bring up so subtle to more direct cues are about instant when it is used properly http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/TheCommandLead.htm

May I ask where are you located...maybe someone close to you that knows the rick Smith method could hook up with you for a few hours and give you some tips

OR find someone who does shows...you know those nice dainty leads they use in the ring..notice where they have them high up on the neck and PS they aren't so dainty

[BillGraves]

I live in York, PA.

I also have one of those Show chokers. I guess I wasn't using it right but it seemed to always slip to a low point on the neck.

What about the barking and craziness when he sees rabbits or squirrels?

Bill

[kninebirddog]

If it is slipping down it is because he is getting to far forward then he begins to brace against it then he is in the lead with out permission

As for the barking when he is concentrating on your walk and you can get him redirected and it will take some serious attention getting at first and being extremely consistent it will resolve it self on the walks..since if his attention is with you then it isn't on the squirrel or what ever else he is tuning You out with

My policy with my dogs is when we go for walks or out in the field this is MY time the time card is punched it isn't about chasing this pissing on that sniffing this ignoring me they have all day in the yard or kennel to do what they want..walks with guidance and direction and construction are more tiring and fulfilling then when the dog meanders aimlessly and then fixes on running game

Wild Mtn Brittanys Brian and Helen Riggle aka kiki's mom might look them up http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/member ... ile&u=3175 that is helens profile they might be able to help you out of they are close enough

[wems2371]

I also have one of those Show chokers. I guess I wasn't using it right but it seemed to always slip to a low point on the neck.
Bill

If it's a show choker, that looks like a fine jewelry-like choke chain, you won't be able to keep it up in that groove. Other style of corded show leads usually have a stopper on them, whether it's a plastic or leather slider. So you put the lead on, position it snuggly in the groove behind the ears, and slide the stopper down to keep at that level of tightness. So when you or the dog pulls, it will get tighter around the neck--but not any looser than you originally set it to. These are the kind I bought for conformation class. In the product picture they show, I don't see a stopper, but the ones I ordered did have one--just like the description says. http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.a ... id=0029401 Knine is right about show lead sturdiness, I bought 2 thinking that 1/8 cording might come apart, and months later I'm still using the same one--despite what started as a very rowdy 9 month old pup on the end of it. Keeping it in that groove makes the dog very controllable, in my experience. I like the command lead/wonderlead as well, and have had some good success with it.

I know you mentioned that you hadn't had him on birds yet. How many times have you had him afield? I'm really a newbie at all this gundog stuff, but it sounds likes he's a 5 year old dog without the experience afield, so he's approaching it like a puppy and chasing everything that moves. And then when he's on the end of a leash, barking is all he can do. Both my dogs have gone through a stage like that, chasing tweety birds, pointing mice and the like. It seemed like with more time afield and more birdwork, they for the most part choose the pheasants and my training birds over most other wildlife. They kind of figured out that they weren't ever going to catch a tweety bird. Not saying they never do the trash animals, when we're out hunting and can't find any phez, but they sure let up on it after they had more field experience and birdwork. Of course you have to make sure that you have enough obedience for a recall, Garmin, wide open spaces, etc...to where you don't have to worry about losing him afield. I don't hunt woods though, so maybe that'll be more of a challenge, both in keeping track of him and with the varied wildlife. Just some thoughts...

[bhairhoger]

Hey Bill I live around York. Ever consider joining NAVHDA because the Keystone chapter holds weekend training clinics 2 times a month. I would also email Greg Fry (deadwooddogs@yahoo.com) our current director of training and he could help you out.

[BillGraves]

Hey Bill I live around York. Ever consider joining NAVHDA because the Keystone chapter holds weekend training clinics 2 times a month. I would also email Greg Fry (deadwooddogs@yahoo.com) our current director of training and he could help you out.

I have considered NAVHDA but didn't know if they were more trial oriented, which I am not interested in. I am meeting a guy from Dillsburg tomorrow to do some training and get some advice. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for the suggestions all. I appreciate it.
Bill