Training for duck search

[rkelly]

For you NAVHDA guys what is the best way you recommend starting to train a dog for a duck search?

[Munster]

This is how I started and was able to get the point across with in 3 days.

Get A LOT of ducks, I used dead ducks becasue you dont want it to become a duck chase. I put 3-4 ducks out in the marsh, got into a kayak and had Abby swim with me. I used the command, "Find it!" and would paddle out to the location of each duck. I would reward her for each find, and continue on to the next duck.

As time went by, I would give the command and I wouldnt have to paddle out as far. Each time I was able to back off the kayak, until I was out of the boat and standing on shore.

This is just a brief summary. I would recommend NOT starting with a gun shot as this is where I made a big mistake. I never taught a resent without the shot. I think because when I started out I was training for UPT and ended up doing the UT.

Make sure you have A lot of ducks, you want them to ALWAYS find a duck.
Dont use the gun right away
and teach resends

Good luck

[ckirsch]

I used some dead ducks initially, but what really started a fire in my dog was turning him loose in dams with lots of young wild ducks. He learned pretty quickly where their most likely hiding spots were, and became and expert on finding them. That led to duck chases, which I felt was a good thing as it really built enthusiasm. The day of the UT test, he jumped in, swam to the thickest stuff, and crawled in. We saw very little of him after that, other than a glimpse every now and then. I had to call him back after fifteen minutes. None of the UT dogs caught any of the released ducks that day, as the test water was a nasty swamp that had solid reeds for 30-40 yards all around the dam. There were still several "4"s given.

Munster makes a good point about using more than one duck, so that your dog will resend if he manages to catch and retrieve one too quickly on test day.

I thought the duck search was the least-challenging aspect of the UT test, but others I've spoken to felt it was the most difficult. I think if you get your dog understanding that there are some exciting things available in the gnarliest corners of the swamp, she'll do just fine.

Good luck!

[Hattrick]

It`s nice hearing other peoples take on the duck search, i`m like rkelly in this being my next step in training ... i`ve herd alot of the same things as ckirsch ,like this was the most challenging of all ..i guess its how you introduce them...good advice here!

[Ruffshooter]

Personally: If I have a dog that has plenty of prey drive, I think the best way is to start with duck chases when they are young.
The whole point of the Duck Search is not the retrieve,(it is the location of game that is wounded,) it take the independence of the dog to take and search and expand the search on it own with out being handled. Each time you get to the water with your prey driven dog your dog finds a duck out there, so when they go to water they automatically want to find the duck and start looking (searching). The live duck makes the dog more excited and wanting to be in the water, it searches with more style and animation, IMHO. Success breeds success. So If you have a partner that can go hide in the water with the kayak with a dead duck, have him ready to throw the dead duck in the water or to dispatch the released duck so the dog can retrieve back to you.
Most times when the dog is chasing, it turns into a search. The duck looses the dog in weeds, dives or doubles back down wind of the dog. The other benefit to a live duck search is that the dog eventually gets to retrieve an actual wounded duck, which really is the end goal in the search of a duck. Some dogs will not pick up a live duck, wounded or not, so it is best if they do it in training. FF is always a help.
Some times a dog will start to loose interest, (mostly on the first couple) when it looses the duck and can't find it. One remedy is to have other ducks out there. You can have launchers out in the water on hummucks and when the dog is facing that way you can pop the new fresh duck out and the chase is on again. You put the launchers 180 degrees away from each other so you have option each direction. Or you can just put two more ducks out there on their own on opposite ends, the dog is bound to run into one of them.
Many will use dead ducks, that is a retrieve, some dogs work better that way because they are wired a little different. The retrieve means more to them than the search for a live duck. I have one now that may have to go down that route.
By using dead ducks there is alwasy success out in the water. Essentially you are seeding the water with ducks spread out over the area and sending your dog for retrieves. This works good for resends aslo. You need to be able to send your dog out multiple times. IMO FF is a must in this type of Search training.

[Munster]

I didnt mean to make it sound like a duck chase isnt a good thing. I agree that it is in the begining. That is just how I got things started. After she got the idea of the search and that there is always a duck out there, then I moved to live ducks that can get away and hide.
It is all a process and takes a little time. But I am no pro and she is my first dog and that is how we got it done. We did get a 4 in our search, which was a great search and the only dog to come back with a duck,that we still have no clue were it came from!

I will add this, I was sooo worried about the duck search training that I actually spoke to some retriever trainers. Bad idea, we arent on the same page with this drill. They dont get why I want her to search for a duck that they can just direct a dog to.
After I calmed down and had some direction, it wasnt all that hard to teach and I was worried for no real reason.
You will be surprised how quick your dog will take to this!

All great replies.

[Ruffshooter]

Munster: Did not mean to say you way is not correct, just there are different ways for different dogs. Sometimes it is the retrieving desire that get the dog to go and jump start the process, sometimes and mostly the chase will jump start that search quicker. The little french brit in my avatar is going to be one of those that is jump started by the seeded water, for retrieves. My VC GSP MERCY was all about prey drive, she only took a couple times out and she was doing 4 searches all on her own at a year old. Buster does not have the want to pass with a 4 maybe a 3 so I have not tested him. Stella is all about prey drive. It only took her a few times to get it she has hip displaysia so I will not breed so no need to test. Gauge, 4 all about prey drive and again was only a few times and the light stayed on.

You find what works best and use it. I always try the chase first because it is quicker than the seeded water if they are wired that way.

You are also right about many of the lab trainers, They wonder why would you want a dog to do something on its own with out you guiding it. I did use the help of a lab trainer for my 250 yard blinds. They can get a dog to do anything.

Congrats on the 4 for your search, that ususally means a fun duck search to watch. Those LiL Musty's are fun to watch on the search.

Rick

[crackerd]

Awfully good input here, going from one great suggestion to another.

Couple of things: ckirsch modestly didn't say what breed his UT Prize 1 dog happened to be, what a brag about a "versatile dog" if he had. Hint: It's a dog known more for 12 o'clock tails than for tailing a duck.

And second, retriever trainers are nonplussed about the duck search, it's true, but if they're also hunters, they use it in a different way, but it's a search for a "cripple" just the same. They handle a dog to the area where a bird was last seen and then the dog's on its own, either through a command of "hunt it up" or "hunt dead" or of its own instincts to find and recover game kicking in. And a retriever sent on a blind retrieve ain't coming back without a bird in its mouth, so make of that what you will.

The one thing to be mindful of with the duck search, as ckirsch understands, is if your goal is getting to the NAVHDA invitational, there you'll have an actual blind retrieve on water to get through. So you will want to have a command "held in reserve" for teaching that, and the command on a blind is "Back!" Meaning on the duck search, you will want to send the dog on either its name or as I did, "Search!"

But the advice here for the original poster is the best he could've hoped for, and probably still more to come.

MG

[rkelly]

Thanks for all the suggestions, great stuff. Now I just have to find some ducks and give it a go.

[Munster]

Keep us updated!!

[adogslife]

You will want to teach your dog to track scent on water.

There is no longer a duck search at the invitational.


adogslife

[ckirsch]

Crackerd and Ruffshooter have both forgotten more about retrieving training than I'll ever know, so pay close attention to what they have to share. I am been gleaning information from them to help me prepare for the Invitational.

I had asked Crackerd about using different commands for a search and a blind. My dog loves the search, so sending him off using his name results in him wanting to check out every corner of the dam, rather than holding the line I give him, so I'm using "back" to release him for the blind. I'd been warned to stop duck searches right after the UT, to help keep the dog focused on making clean blinds. He'll have to cross a hundred yards of water, then track the duck drag up the bank for an additional thirty yards or so. This is all new to me, but I can see where it would be of great value in any type of upland or waterfowl hunting.

Hoping for warmer weather so that we can get back in the water. Our four-inches of snow last week didn't help much. September is coming up pretty fast. All the help is greatly appreciated....

[adogslife]

"He'll have to cross a hundred yards of water, then track the duck drag up the bank for an additional thirty yards or so."

oops. This is still part of the Invitational. Just the duck search has been replaced.

good luck

[Ruffshooter]

DGlife; the actual duck work you mention. The blind, as you said is still part of the invitational. The Shackled duck which is not a search unless the dog looses the duck Then of course it is and one could actually handle the dog to the area, minimally. The only way to pass that part of the test was to have a completed retrieve of the shackeld duck, it may not even be your duck. It is no longer part of the Invitaional. Now it is double marks. Which is a more fair test but eaiser to pass depending on the set, which, unfortunately, I have not seen.

Rick