whoa breaking.......

[jimbo&rooster]

Ok, so I have started my whoa breaking process with my 7mo GSP. he will "whoa" and stand still if he is in the house and comes up to me, or if I put him on the table until released. I have read and been told that one way to go to the next step is to walk the dog on a lead and whoa them and make them stand until released. well i have been doing this on the check cord but have had the cord hooked to the collar then looped around his mid section then run back to me and when i tell him whoa i will pop the line to stop him, and he will "whoa" till I walk up and release him (he has been responding pretty well). I assume that he will figure out that he is to stop when told to whoa. Is this an acceptable way of doing this or should I change what im doing? Ive only been at it for a week so im not out anything if i need to change.
Jim

[birddogger]

There are a few different methods people use to whoa break a dog, but what you are doing will work fine. It sounds like you are already close. Just keep up the drills until you can walk away from him, out in front of him and all around him with him standing until the release command. Make him stand while exposing him to distractions, such as kicking around in front of him, pretending to run away and finally putting some smelly treats on the ground in front of him. I like to finish them with an e-collar around the flank as long as you know how to use it properly. You can then transition this to birds, making sure you have a checkcord on him. Keep in mind, I am no expert, but I have never had a problem whoa breaking a dog.

Charlie

[Tall Boy]

That is the best way to teach whoa. On thing I would look at is if the flank cord is necessary. It works real well for harder to control dogs beacuse it is a little more sensitive of an area. But in the beginning, especially with a real young dog, the less pressure you put on him the better. It should be fun!

Start off just saying whoa and gently stopping your dog by putting pressure on the lead (straight back low over the back, straight up can cause a sit). Once he complies pet him with your finger tips(once or twice), only hold him there for a moment. Every time you release the dog you need to use a cue, I tap the dog on the head and say "alright" . You can begin making him stad there longer and longer, eventually working your way in front of him. When you go to get in front, it is best to start off by stepping sidways first, rather than just walking forward. If you just step forward your dog is more likely to make the mistake of following, because up until now when you walked he walked. Progressivley get farther and farther away. After you can walk in front and make him stand for a few seconds, with out moving, you can start giving the command while he is moving out in front of you. Be sure that when you give the command you can immediatley correct if needed, it is my experience that you have about 3 seconds before the dog may not understand why you are correcting him. Now one of the most important tips I can give you is to let the dog dictate the training. At this point your dog knows "whoa" so give him a chance to mess up, or comply before stopping him. Meaning don't give the command with any tension on the lead, let the dog dictate the correction. If when you give the command the dog shys or comes back to you, he is telling you that he's not ready for the distance you gave the command. It helps to let your dog see you at a certain distance while he's already whoad before you ask him to stop that same distance in front of you.

Heel is good command to teach first because you can use it to help teach whoa, by putting a dog into heel and whoaing him from there. This puts you in a great place to make the correction and I also like to think that being in a command puts the dog in a better mental state to learn a new command.

The petting is a way to tell the dog konw that what he is doing leads to good things. Dogs are opportunistic and extremely self centered, everything they do is to better their personal situation. The correction is a way to let him know not to do that, and the priase is a way to show him what he is suppose to do instead. Pet him gently and slowly, not making too much of deal, it is okay to fuss over him after he's been released from the final command of the session, but not during training. A calm dog is a teachable dog.

Your corrections should be quick, and unemotional. If you find yourself getting annoyed or mad it is time to stop, and put the dog up for the day. You can do an incredible amount of damage to a dog if you lose temper with him. And trust me, there will be those days!

Keep the training session short and consistent, but not monotanous. Less is more, if you lose the dogs attention, and its shorter than you think, then you're not making progress and can actually begin to sour a dog to the training. If he does it right a couple times move on. It is great if you can mix in some free time, running or whatever to make the sessions something he looks forward to. Like a person, the attitude makes the dog, and the as the trainer you have a lof of control over your dogs attitude.

Just remember that if you're not making corrections then you aren't training. Put him in situations that he will fail, that is how he learns. Do not rush, If you confuse him then the correction will mean nothing. Watch your dog like a hawk and you will begin to tell what he is feeling, and can adapt your traiing to him. And that, my friend is the name of the game in dog training.

I hope this helps!

[Sprig]

that is a good way to do it. the trick comes when you take the leash from around the belly and just have it attatched to the collar and get the same response. dogs know when you do it this way that the pressure around the belly means whoa and sometimes when you start to work the dog without it they start to test ya so dont be worried if the dog doesn't keep it up for a few days as you transition to just a leash attatched to the collar, that is normal. just keep working through it.

[jimbo&rooster]

well ive been at it for about two weeks now and am getting "decent" results. im in no hurry, i figure i got till bout october before its really that big a deal . the reason that I use the half hitch around the belly is because this guy is a monster. (7mos bout 50-55lbs). over the last couple of times out he has done exceptionally better, but still requires a quick pop to get him stopped then if he doesnt stop I pick him up and set him in the spot he was in at the command. I still put him on the table for a short time several times a day just to keep him used to the idea. I have been releasing him with a tap on the head and an "ok", he will stand as long as i stand with him and pet him, I can generally get a couple feet in front of him before he breaks then pick him up and put him back. today while i was running him on my inlaws farm he locked up on a brush pile and I was close enough to get to the CC and whoad him and he held good then i kinda leaned on him and he staunched up good. kicked around in the brush and found nothing but kicked up a quail bout 10ft down the tree row. I appreciate the advise and will just keep plugging along.
JIm

[birddogger]

I am glad to hear that your are making progress. IMO, you are doing exactly right by not being in a hurry. A lot of people make a mistake of rushing it and end up with the dog not fully broke. It takes as long as it takes. I am talking from experience here.

Charlie

[Yawallac]

I was doing some whoa work with a hunting dog this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxIfTVZ23I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rmrd6MrMo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxbFLszTQY

[daniel77]

I was doing some whoa work with a hunting dog this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxIfTVZ23I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rmrd6MrMo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxbFLszTQY

I'd say that Ace knows what "whoa" means. Nice. Is the other dog a young one not to "whoa" yet?

[Yawallac]

No, that's Sarah helping me train. She's my distraction dog and she knows the drill.

[Ruffshooter]

Ross I see the two collars one flank and one neck, When doing this drill are you using the collars initially to get them stopped or only if they do not?

[Yawallac]

The collar on the neck is a Garmin. All training dogs wear a Garmin while running here ...just in case. The teaching of "whoa" was done in the controlled training field. Here I am overlaying what he already knows. Next the collar goes back on his neck. He has not been stimulated in over a week and a half so he is ready to finish up and he'll go home this weekend.

[jimbo&rooster]

Well after several weeks of working on Whoa with my pup I am starting to see some success with him. I have gone from the half hitch around his waist to simply using the CC hooked to his flat collar. He will stand at whoa before entering or leaving the house and before leaving his kennel until released. I expect to move on to the Ecollar in a couple of weeks. With my lab, I Collar Conditioned her using sit, stay, and here. the only commands that my GSP knows are Here and obviously we are working on whoa. Should I just use the check cord and the Ecollar and just pop the cord and give him a nick on the whoa command?
Jim

[snips]

I teach Whoa (older) but use no ecollar...Labs are much different than Shorthairs, and can take more. I would discourage using it for Whoa on a pup this age....

[gonehuntin']

Snips is right, 7 months is too young for collar conditioning a GSP. Wait until you have him trained, then overlay his commands with a collar.

On whoa you'll find it goes fast it the dog CAN'T move when you command whoa. Drive a half dozen stakes in around the yard, rebar will do. Walk the dog past them and drop the flank cc over the stake commanding WHOA. Instantly, if he doesn't stop, snub him up on each stake. He must stop instantly.

You'll find that if you command WHOA and he takes a step then you set him back, it'll take longer to train him. As soon as he's stopping instantly, take the flank collar off.

When he's at whoa walk all around him, tugging on the leash but saying nothing. If he moves command NO, WHOA. It's a proofing method.

Be aware that when you collar break a dog, if you use only one command, they will default to that command. In other words teach him HERE and not WHOA, and he'll come to you every time you command WHOA and stimulate him. Always, always, teach three commands on the collar at the same time. HERE, to pull him to you. WHOA to stop him stationary. KENNEL to push him away. Now he knows the collar forces him in three directions and he won't default to a single response.

[jimbo&rooster]

thanks for the advice. my original intention had been to work him informally on whoa through the summer and early fall and hunt him as is through his first season, and then to get seriouse about breaking him next spring once I have had the opportunity to put some feathers in his mouth. but ,he seems to be doing well with whoa and I thought I might move on to the next step. but I am not to big to follow the advice of people with more experience. ill continue with my original plan. thanks for the advice.
JIm

[Neil]

Buddy Stick
Whoa Barrel
then e-collar

[Tall Boy]

Don't forget heel. It's a good way to transition to the collar, epecially if you have been using a verbal correction like "ah-ah". Everytime you bump him with the cc nick him with the collar, keep it on the lowest stimulation he feels. I say everytime, but i find a few reps with out it during a session keeps them happier. When applying increased pressure it is important to keep the sessions short 5-10min and always end with a happy dog.

[jimbo&rooster]

well ol' rooster just turned 8mo old and he just started to act really dumb so Im gona slow down and just continue to work him on the long line and see what happens. i have no intentions of doing anything more than enjoying this dog so time is somthing Ive got plenty of. I really appreciate every ones advice and help and will come back and look at it when it comes time to move on.
thanks
JIm

[birddogger]

well ol' rooster just turned 8mo old and he just started to act really dumb so Im gona slow down and just continue to work him on the long line and see what happens. i have no intentions of doing anything more than enjoying this dog so time is somthing Ive got plenty of. I really appreciate every ones advice and help and will come back and look at it when it comes time to move on.
thanks
JIm

IMO, you have the right mind set.

Charlie