blood tracking

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anb
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blood tracking

Post by anb » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:04 am

Just curious if anyone else on here trains their dogs for blood tracking (big game recovery)? I have started Annabelle, she seems very enthusiastic and good nose, but sometimes goes too fast - it seems hard to slow her down for anything. Unfortunately, we dont get to lay trail very often due to a lack of blood. i was able to save some from the deer last year, but it seems like such a precious resource, i am trying to save the 2 bags for closer to deer season. We have plenty of liver, but I am hesitant to lay trail with that too often, so she doesn't get hooked on that smell only. Any opinions? Is something better than nothing, or should we just wait?
Andrea

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madonna
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Re: blood tracking

Post by madonna » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:56 am

anb wrote:Just curious if anyone else on here trains their dogs for blood tracking (big game recovery)? I have started Annabelle, she seems very enthusiastic and good nose, but sometimes goes too fast - it seems hard to slow her down for anything. Unfortunately, we dont get to lay trail very often due to a lack of blood. i was able to save some from the deer last year, but it seems like such a precious resource, i am trying to save the 2 bags for closer to deer season. We have plenty of liver, but I am hesitant to lay trail with that too often, so she doesn't get hooked on that smell only. Any opinions? Is something better than nothing, or should we just wait?
Andrea

Hallo! I am doing blood tracking with my dogs in nature and for tests.
1. Do only make tracks over night
2. Do not make the tracks only with blood, but a little bit blood on the beginning, and all 100 yards one blood dot - "Verweiserpunkt"- if the dogs "shows" the blood dot- in sniffing- you make him sit, "show me!"- you praise him and give him a little morsel of food on the blood.
3. you do the track with the hoofs of the roe deer or boar. at the begin you make a little bit blood at the down side of the hoof and all 200 yards you do this again.
4. the most important thing in blood tracking is the end! if there is only an old fur your dog will soon get bored. at the end, under the old fur you do something of the best food the dog can dream of.

My best wishes for you success°! Madonna

Look here:
http://www.jagd-pur.de/Hundebedarf/Ausb ... Zgod8RRYIg

the hoof of the roe deer will be at the side in the ring you see!
The woman, who plays with the pups

Image

birddog1220
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Re: blood tracking

Post by birddog1220 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:16 am

hi andrea,i do with my dk. you will probaly get told a lot of different ways to do it,listen to them and try to pick the one that best works for you and the dog. when doing them pay close attention to your dog and learn when she is on the track and off of it but most importantly trust your dog. if your up in maine there are some realy good people you could get with,try the local navhda chapters or the nadkc chapters in the area thell be able to help you. best of luck in your tracking,its a lot of fun and very exciting.


jim ritze

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AzDoggin
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Re: blood tracking

Post by AzDoggin » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:07 pm

The guy that wrote the book on blood tracking is in New York: http://www.deersearch.org/tips%20on%20tracking.htm

His book is amazing - I highly recommend it.

Note that some states allow blood trailing big game with dogs, and some states do not. The state I live in (Arizona) doesn't allow it :(

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wems2371
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Re: blood tracking

Post by wems2371 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:17 pm

How old is Anabelle?

I attended a foot tracking seminar last year, put on by the local DD & NAVHDA club. The instructor used hotdog pieces to start pups, and stated you could transfer to blood later. His class was more about teaching the methodology, like how to start a dog properly for the best end result. It is initially based on food motivation, and not letting the dog miss footprints, by having them interspaced with hotdog pieces. It is suppose to make for a more thorough search, because the dog won't cut the track, as there is motivation all along it--instead of just at the end. Not sure that that matters for game, but with foot tracking, it could mean a missed wallet or other evidence. I don't know if it was the best way (and I'm definitely not doing it justice with my quick synopsis), but it was definitely interesting and made sense.

Have you tried your local butcher, as a route for getting blood?

I really am NOT very experienced yet, but a few things come to mind, to slow the pup down. One would be using less blood and spacing it out further, age the track longer, add some corners in the track, and then lastly would be to make sure your tracking leash is between the dogs front legs to aid in keeping it's nose to the ground. Again, just suggestions from another newbie, and as Jim said...my NAVHDA group is a good resource for this.

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anb
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Re: blood tracking

Post by anb » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:27 pm

Great to see there are other blood trackers here!
Madonna,
Thanks for the advice - making her sit and say "show me" is a wonderful idea - helps slow her down as well as show me she is doing the right thing! Website in German, aber spreche ein bisschen Deutch! I will have to pick one of these up at some point.

Arizona,
Too bad they don't allow it in AZ. I guess lots of people are more worried about dogs running deer, than hunters letting them go to waste. This year alone, we salvaged two that were left for dead - not sure if they were poached or lost, but we got one just as the tide was coming in to wash it out to sea!

wems2371,
Annabelle is just over 7 months now. I didn't think of contacting the guy who butchers my dad's (and others) deer/game until recently. Figured he wouldn't have any saved now, since it is 3 months after season now. I plan on having him save game blood for me next season though. Will other animal blood (cow/pig) work just as well, or is it best to stick to the types of game blood that she will be tracking?

Any one have preferences collars vs harness??

Thanks for the input,
Andrea

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Hattrick
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Re: blood tracking

Post by Hattrick » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:04 pm

I have my ears open on this one, i`ll be doing the same thing with Luci as soon as we get through NA test in the spring.. I used butchers blood in the past, bloods blood.. Keep the ideas coming this interesting :D

birddog1220
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Re: blood tracking

Post by birddog1220 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:01 pm

if you could get the pig blood get it. yes blood is blood but i think some is better than others. was lucky enough to get quite a lot of elk blood was told its better than the others(hotter) . i would try to get hold of the nadkc guys in your area.

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daniel77
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Re: blood tracking

Post by daniel77 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:08 pm

I've played with Schutzhund tracking a bit, and it is more like what Wems2371 said. We want them to seek out each individual footprint. You lay individual treats in each footprint, and as the dog progresses you start to skip one here and there, and then two, three, and so on. Those dogs are taught to find articles along the way and identify them with a sit, you could certainly train the same way for blood drops. I don't think using a different type of blood will have much of a negative effect at all. FWIW
Also, all of the Schutzhund guys use a harness for tracking, and never a collar. Putting the harness on is one of those big cues that tells the dog it's time to go tracking now. Might be a real good idea with a bird dog, because they are following air scent for the birds, and ground scent for the animals, unless you start tracking the animal pretty quickly. There is a pretty significant difference between tracking air scent and ground scent, so the harness might help the dog to know how to proceed. I'd also say that having your butcher/processor save you some hides to freeze and use at the end of your tracks, or as articles to find along the way would be extremely beneficial as well. Also, be darn sure to lay tracks over varying terrains. I once saw a high level Schutzhund dog fail a course because he failed to follow a track from grass into a freshly plowed field. He thought the track ended when the terrain changed. NBD in a competition, but could cost you a trophy in the field. Good luck.
Two cannibals were eating a clown. One looks up at the other and says, "Does this taste funny to you?"

doctorbrady
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Re: blood tracking

Post by doctorbrady » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:31 pm

Talking blood tracking gets my pulse rate up! In fact, it is the primary reason that I purchased my dog. I dug through hours of information before choosing a German Wachtelhund. He's turned out to be a pretty remarkable retriever and rabbit dog too. My dog is currently 5 months old, and has been running tracks since the first week I brought him home. He now runs 400 meter tracks with lots of turns and minimal (around 30 ml or one ounce) of blood. I recommend John Jeanenney's book whole-heartedly, but as John admits it doesn't tell you EVERYTHING. It is a greast starting place, though. Also, John is amazingly accessable, and will spend time talking to you over the phone as if he knew you forever.
Here are my basic tips that will get you started.
1. Livers are for puppies or slow starters. They will get a pup's interest because of the overwhelming scent. My dog was bored with livers after the first time, and never ran another liver trail. I've still got a few in the freezer :) .
2. Start with pretty easy trails. Like everything else your pup needs to be successful to learn. I always make a "wound bed" at the beginning of the trail by roughing up the ground and distributing a visible amount of blood there. This is your starting point. From there lay a consistent drop of blood using a sports bottle. The first trails should be in short grass, straight, and only about 50-75 feet long. They should be aged an hour or two or the scent will be too much for your dog, and they will likely want to stop and lick it the whole time rather than tracking.
3. Always use a lead when starting. I use 30 feet of mountain rope. I also always use the same "tracking collar" that I place on the dog very close to where I want him to start tracking. After a few times, he will know that the collar and lead means "we're going to track."

4. 4.

doctorbrady
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Re: blood tracking

Post by doctorbrady » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:40 pm

4. Leave a reward at the end of the track. Fresh meat, a piece of hide, or a hot dog will do. Also, love your dog like crazy when it gets to the end. I roll around with mine on the ground and tell him how great he is. Make sure no one is watching :oops: .
5. If your dog is a slow starter or just not "connecting the dots", use hot dogs every few yards in the blood trail. I did this, and covered the small pieces in the deer blood. Once your dog gets it, take out the treats along the trail.
6. If your dog goes too fast, and he will, use the lead to slow him down a bit.
7. Be VERY PATIENT! Tracking is not a task that you can train your dog to do like fetching a bumper. Your dog has to want to track, or it won't. There are a few exceptions to this, but if you push your dog to hard or scold it during tracking practice, it will not track like you want it to. Talk calmly as your dog tracks, and keep your cool.
8.Mark your blood trail well. Use masking tape or marking tape. If you can't see the trail well (you won't see the blood well when you cut the volume way down) by your marks, you will have a hard time knowing when your dog is way off. You should be able to "correct" your dog when he gets off mark, by bringing him back and slowing him down. Dogs will learn how to maneuver through the "gaps."
9. Use less and less blood, and throw in some deer hoof prints (attack hoof to a walking stick).
10. Get out on the real thing as often as possible. Good luck.

birddog1220
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Re: blood tracking

Post by birddog1220 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:05 am

well put. couldnt agree more with what you said. instead of the tape i spraypainted a bunch of clouth pins blaze orange and use them to mark the trail clip them on the branches real easy to see when your getting off track.

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