FF and the GSP

[windswept]

I have long been a believer in FF. I have never done it though. I have always paid a trainer to do it.
I have dipped my toe into a new breed, a GSP and it has been my intention to do the FF myself this time. I thought I'd buy SmartFetch and give it a try. A few weeks ago I read on one of the boards I visit (maybe this one) a comment from a former pro that said in his opinion a GSP is the toughest breed to FF. What do those of you who have worked with a number of different breeds think? Is this really the case?
Thanks.

[gonehuntin']

I also agree that the GSP is the hardest of the breeds to ff. But, here's the deal. If you ff the dog, try to do it with as LITTLE pressure as possible. If you get into a battle of wills with a GSP, you'll lose.

When I was a pro, many moons ago, we didn't have the variable intensity collars. Everyting was done with the 70. When I'd see a GSP come in, I"d cry. We trained all gun dogs, retrievers, spaniels, and pointers and no matter what anyone may tell you, the GSP was the worst of the lot.

The key is to keep the pressure low but make them do it. You can go it by following Smart Fetch. Evan uses the correct amount of pressure on the dogs. Study him and watch exactly how much pressure he's using and you'll be fine. Don't let it scare you.

[snips]

I could not disagree more that the GSP is hard to FF...But I do not use a ecollar.

[EvanG]

I have long been a believer in FF. I have never done it though. I have always paid a trainer to do it.
I have dipped my toe into a new breed, a GSP and it has been my intention to do the FF myself this time. I thought I'd buy SmartFetch and give it a try. A few weeks ago I read on one of the boards I visit (maybe this one) a comment from a former pro that said in his opinion a GSP is the toughest breed to FF. What do those of you who have worked with a number of different breeds think? Is this really the case?
Thanks.

Let me just say this - and bear in mind I'm not making light of anything or anyone. Your dog doesn't know he's a GSP. He doesn't know what color or breed he is, or what it says on his papers. He's a dog; more specifically, he's your dog.

I say all that for a reason. One of my patented sayings is "Train the dog you're training". Don't place expectations on him just because of his breed, sex, color, or any other broad reason. Take certain breed traits into consideration, and allow for the possibility that your dog may share some of those traits with others of his genetic line. But just train HIM, and let him show you how tough, how sensitive, how smart, or how stubborn he may be. But give him a fair chance, and just take him at face value. Train this dog, not someone else's idea of what his stereotype should be.

Okay, I'm off my soap box now.

EvanG

[Dave Quindt]

I have long been a believer in FF. I have never done it though. I have always paid a trainer to do it.
I have dipped my toe into a new breed, a GSP and it has been my intention to do the FF myself this time. I thought I'd buy SmartFetch and give it a try. A few weeks ago I read on one of the boards I visit (maybe this one) a comment from a former pro that said in his opinion a GSP is the toughest breed to FF. What do those of you who have worked with a number of different breeds think? Is this really the case?
Thanks.

I don't know a pro with 100 FF'ed GSPs under their belt who would agree with that statement, in fact I know a few Brit pros who would STRONGLY disagree with it. I know a bunch of quality pros with at least that much experience; almost every one would consider the GSP the easiest of the pointing breeds to FF. They take pressure well and generally don't get nasty about it.

Keep in mind that GSPs and the other continental breeds were being FF'ed decades before the first retriever was ever FF'ed; you see FF methods showing up in some of the German hunting dog training literature in the '30s. The FF method comes from the German Schutzhund training methods. It's not uncommon for Dobes and Rotts to be FF'ed; in fact the pro who helped me FF my first GSP has FF'ed a handful of those dogs.

I would be very careful of the retriever techniques in the use of the ecollar and the transitional steps they use the end of FF; it can conflict with pointing dog training if you don't know what you are doing. The beauty though of FF'ing pointing dogs is that you can often keep them on birds for the entire process, just as long as you are not killing any. It's easy to let the dog blow off some FF pressure by taking him for a run with a bird contact or two.

JMO,
Dave

[birddogger]

I have obviously, not had the experience that a pro has had, working with hundreds of dogs in his/her lifetime. But I have had both EPs and GSPs. It seems to me that it has to do with the individual dog and not the breed. I once had an EP that was the hardest headed dog that I have ever owned. She took alot of pressure, but turned out to be a great dog, once she was broke.

I have a GSP who practically trained himself. He will happily do anything I want, once he knows what that is. I have another GSP, who is stubborn and more independent.

As far as FF goes, I have only done one dog, that being my younger GSP. While it was somewhat frustrating at times, I can't imagine that an EP would have been any easier, just because it was an EP. I did not use an e-collar, just the ear pinch. I am not disputing anybody's claims. This is just my take on it, from my experiences.

Charlie

[snips]

I do not know how many dogs I have FF'ed, but it is ALOT. There have been a few tough Shorthairs, one being my Logan, who was a super nice dog and well worth it. But every dog out of him I trained was a natural retriever...Go figure. EPs have not been hard to FF, my EP probably set a record for my fastest FF. Intelligence pays a big part in FF. I think according to breed the toughest dogs I have had have been setters. (Just rambling). I agree with Dave completly on his comments.