How to get my dog to stay on point when pointing pheasants

[webfoot1973]

Went up to PA over Thanksgiving and took my Father In Law bird hunting. Took my WPG out and he started fine, pointed some pheasants, was steady to Fall. Its when the birds started running is where we had issues. He would keep relocating to get back on point ., and would then track the bird and then flush it . Just wanted to know what the best method is to train him . Not really sure if he supposed to do that, or maybe he just got too close. Any suggestions???

[gonehuntin']

It's called "relocating" and here's the deal. In my opinion, every experienced hunting dog relocates when a bird runs out on it. It'll kill you in a trial, but hunting, it's what you want. But I want you to think about something and that's the track. If that bird runs downwind, the dog will never scent it. It'll get on the track and flush the bird accidentally. If the bird is going upwind, the dog can and will track it and when the scent is strong enough, re-point the bird.

So when your dog takes off on a runner and flushes a bird, it is probably an accidental flush. What's your alternative? You can teach the dog steadiness on point and to never relocate until you release it. I personally don't like this method but many people do.

A wise and experienced dog, some of them, will learn to hook downwind instead of trailing the bird, but that takes a lot of experience and time in the field.

The more you hunt him, the better he'll get.

[Brittguy]

Relocating in a trial will not hurt you, as long as they do it before you start the flushing attempt, in fact it may help avoid non-productives.

[slistoe]

If that bird runs downwind, the dog will never scent it. It'll get on the track and flush the bird accidentally.

As Brittguy has correctly noted there is nothing wrong with a dog relocating on his own in a trial before the handler has taken control of the situation. After the handler has moved in front of the dog there is also nothing necessarily wrong with a relocation on command. But the above scenario is absolute death to a dog in a trial. Flushing of a bird that the dog is aware of in the vicinity is an absolute no-no and will have you immediately disqualified. Because there is a risk of accidental flush in any relocation attempt there are a good many trial handlers who will not relocate the dog and may even train the dog against self-relocation - better to take an NP and still be on the ground running than risk a knock and be on the leash is the logic.

[slistoe]

Relocating in a trial will not hurt you, as long as they do it before you start the flushing attempt, in fact it may help avoid non-productives.

A relocation in a 1/2 hr. stake may not hurt, especially if it is successful where it will become a major positive against carding an NP. But a dog that has a number of relocation attempts will signify to me that it is unsure of its game - it cannot quickly and positively identify the location of a live bird and get the bird to stay put for the gun. The best dogs in the field seldom relocate - because they don't need to. But when they do it is done quickly, boldly, heads up and downwind.

[Sharon]

Excellent posts! Thanks.

[wems2371]

It's called "relocating" and here's the deal. In my opinion, every experienced hunting dog relocates when a bird runs out on it. It'll kill you in a trial, but hunting, it's what you want. But I want you to think about something and that's the track. If that bird runs downwind, the dog will never scent it. It'll get on the track and flush the bird accidentally. If the bird is going upwind, the dog can and will track it and when the scent is strong enough, re-point the bird.

So when your dog takes off on a runner and flushes a bird, it is probably an accidental flush. What's your alternative? You can teach the dog steadiness on point and to never relocate until you release it. I personally don't like this method but many people do.

A wise and experienced dog, some of them, will learn to hook downwind instead of trailing the bird, but that takes a lot of experience and time in the field.

The more you hunt him, the better he'll get.

My 2.5 yr dog did a half dozen tracks w/flush during our 4 day hunting trip, and it was a little disappointing at the time. Knowing that it was her first time getting into a lot of phez, I knew it was a learning experience though. But I had never thought about it...the way you laid it out with wind direction. Thanks for the post.

[myerstenn]

You dog will probally quit doing the flushing thing when he learns he can't catch it, work on whoa so you can establish a little more controll . More experince will more than likey solve your problem.

[RayGubernat]

Webfoot -

Some excellent posts on the subject. Lots of food for thought.

One thing you need to always consider is that your dog, a WPG, is genetically predisposed to track foot scent rather than relocate with head high on body scent. It is part of who and what the dog is.

This is in no way a knock on the dog...it is just something that you need to consider because it is, or should be, bred into this kind of dog.

If the path of the bird's escape is down wind from the dog, a dog that is predisposed to track will put its nose to the ground and do that. If the escape route is into the wind, You should expect and encourage your dog to pick its head up and locate the bird using air(body) scent.

Pointers and setters do this second type of relocation much more readily because they have not been genetically selected for their tracking ability as have the versatiles.

I am not a big fan of allowing a dog to self relocate, but much of that is because I trial. However, a verbal release can be very useful in a hunting scenario.


If your dog will relocate on command, you can chose when and how you want the dog to relocate. If the dog starts out with its head down, tracking foot scent downwind, you can stop the dog, bring it forward and upwind and then allow it to re-locate the bird with a much higher probability of the dog cutting the body scent cone, scenting and pointing the bird rather than boosting it.

Experience, in this kind of thing, is the only thing that really works, so have patience and give the dog plenty of opportunities to figure it out.

RayG

[tailcracken]

It's called "relocating" and here's the deal. In my opinion, every experienced hunting dog relocates when a bird runs out on it. It'll kill you in a trial, but hunting, it's what you want. But I want you to think about something and that's the track. If that bird runs downwind, the dog will never scent it. It'll get on the track and flush the bird accidentally. If the bird is going upwind, the dog can and will track it and when the scent is strong enough, re-point the bird.

So when your dog takes off on a runner and flushes a bird, it is probably an accidental flush. What's your alternative? You can teach the dog steadiness on point and to never relocate until you release it. I personally don't like this method but many people do.

A wise and experienced dog, some of them, will learn to hook downwind instead of trailing the bird, but that takes a lot of experience and time in the field.

The more you hunt him, the better he'll get.

when you get them to hook and use the wind your right my man then you have a bird dog

[madduckdog]

I have been wondering if pratice for NAVHDA NA test incurages this

[tailcracken]

I have been wondering if pratice for NAVHDA NA test incurages this

talking hunting dog not out of the country field trial dog

[slistoe]

I have been wondering if pratice for NAVHDA NA test incurages this

talking hunting dog not out of the country field trial dog

[madduckdog]

he said point not flush

and eps run navada but not labs which are breed to flush