NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

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EddieF
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NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:03 pm

I've never attended any NAVHDA test, but I got on the waiting list for the NA test a couple hours south of here because Winnie is almost 16 months old, there aren't many tests in this area, and I thought it'd be a good experience for us.

Well, now a spot has opened up November 8th and I'm really nervous!!!

Regarding the tracking of a flightless, running bird, is there a way I can practice for that in my yard or nearby field? There is a place near me where I can purchase a pheasant, but I don't really know what to do. I've read about the test itself, but wondered if someone could share how they have trained for this aspect of it.

Thanks!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by birddog1220 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:18 am

what i have done in the past is take a pheasant tie it up around the wings with some heavy string and connect it in the middle of two checkcords. the two people can drag the the bird and hopefuly not leave a lot of sent. by that i mean the dog is tracking the bird not the people. make them short and easy first . if your not sure your dog isnt tracking you can lay your own track with a dead pheasant or duck. again you dont have to go far but make sure you know the exact way you went. easy way is to do one early morning in the dew on the grass and shuffel your feet so you cant miss it. put your dog on a checkcord and give him a comand to track(if you choose to) when you see him getting off the track reel him in and get him back on it. after a few times of that they usaly get the picture. good luck with your test.


jim ritze

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EddieF
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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:26 am

Thank you Jim.

Hey do they always use pheasant at the tests? I have a chukar in my freezer right now, but on Sunday I'm taking Winnie to a preserve to hunt. Included in that hunt is a pheasant, but if I don't shoot (or she doesn't find) that one, I can always buy one from them while we're there.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by birddog1220 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:55 am

yes usaly its a pheasant. just remember your dog doesnt have to find or point the pheasant, they want to see the natural tracking ability of the dog.

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EddieF
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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:58 am

birddog1220 wrote:yes usaly its a pheasant. just remember your dog doesnt have to find or point the pheasant, they want to see the natural tracking ability of the dog.
I know, but I thought if they're going to use a pheasant in the test, I might as well practice with one.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by adogslife » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:53 am

Maybe she'll get plenty of experience at the preserve. I guess this would be the one time you hope birds run and not flush.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by wems2371 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:12 pm

With both my dogs (cause that's all the experience I have :D ), I have started with a few dead bird drags. I have used dead quail, and even a duck, but you're going to want to have a pheasant at some point--so that she's familiar with that species scent. Both my pups were naturals at it, so I just did a few drags and then progressed to a couple live tracks at NAVHDA training days. I remember about a 10' drag rope being on the live pheasant. Can't remember if it was just on a leg or tieing the wings together. I believe it was to inhibit the bird from flying...and it was also so we could reuse the bird.

I can't speak for other chapters, but if you have any NAVHDA chapters or members near you, I think you could get some hands on help. At least that's the way it is around here. There is a "Chapter locator" and a "Members by state list" on the NAVHDA website. Best wishes to Winnie and you!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:27 pm

wems2371 wrote:With both my dogs (cause that's all the experience I have :D ), I have started with a few dead bird drags. I have used dead quail, and even a duck, but you're going to want to have a pheasant at some point--so that she's familiar with that species scent. Both my pups were naturals at it, so I just did a few drags and then progressed to a couple live tracks at NAVHDA training days. I remember about a 10' drag rope being on the live pheasant. Can't remember if it was just on a leg or tieing the wings together. I believe it was to inhibit the bird from flying...and it was also so we could reuse the bird.

I can't speak for other chapters, but if you have any NAVHDA chapters or members near you, I think you could get some hands on help. At least that's the way it is around here. There is a "Chapter locator" and a "Members by state list" on the NAVHDA website. Best wishes to Winnie and you!
Thanks. There is a chapter near me but I am out of time, have to figure out as best I can on my own in the next couple weeks!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by High Voltage » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:24 pm

Pull some feathers from the chest and place them where you are starting the drag. Rub the bird on the feathers and a few inches past the way that you are going to let it loose or drag it. This is how I have seen it done at test anyhow :) Jim has a good way to do the pheasant so you can reuse it. After a couple of easy ones you may want to have whoever drags it have it "hop" a time or two as I have seen pheasants do this at test and it can throw the dogs off. Also have the pheasant "break a barrier" ....thicker cover, cornfield bean field, up a terrace as I am pretty sure it has to in the test. I would also pull the flight feathers just in case it gets off the drag line it can't fly away :) I would not over do it on the tracks. I have ran 3 dogs in NA and only did 2-3 tracks them. Now 2 of them had a hunting seasonn under them but Turbo did not. In fact I forgot about the track until a few days before the test. I just used a quail for her as that is what I had and did 3 the night before the test, the first one she took off hunting. She got a 4 in tracking :D Of course she is a GSP :lol: OH yeh, for Rebal I use a duck cause that was all I had, he got a 4 too, but he had been pheasant hunting before.
The release is a big part, make sure she is on the track before you let her go. I slip my hand under the collar from the body to head so when the dog is ready I can flatten my hand and they walk/run out. You can walk a few feet with your dog down the track before you release them. Don't be afraid to ask the judges questions, they are there to help. They want to see your dog do it's best.
Have fun and write us up a good report onthe test! And of course pictures!!!!!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:36 pm

Good stuff, high voltage, thanks.

I may just have a dead (but fresh) pheasant to work with, unless I have time AT the preserve after our hunt Sunday, but she'll be tired by then.

Hey how far, on average does the dog have to track the bird for the test?

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by High Voltage » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:45 pm

I checked with a friend that is a judge and she said there is no set distance because it depends on how far the bird goes. I know for the ones I've done and watched it seems like they go at least 50-75 yards. Another thing don't worry if she doesn't keep her nose to the ground, she's not a bloodhound :) They can track with a high head but they have to be tracking not searching. They will usually have the track laid with a cross wind if they can, so make sure you start her downwind on the track. I think hunting her this weekend will be a big help for her, maybe she'll get to track some. A dead bird will be better then nothing.
When you are doing the field part remember they want to see natural ability so don't give a lot of commands, as go for a nice hunt!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Ruffshooter » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:18 am

I would like to add just a little.

Pull the primary feathers on 1 wing. (8 or10). they can fly if you pull them off both wings evenly.
On Rare occassions they can use other birds, I have seen Chuckars used. But Rare.
When you do end the drag, Sleep the pheasant, tuck its head under the wing in some deeper cover.
(Although you do not need to point this bird to pass, if you had issues in the field or some reason your pup only pointed one out two birds in field you would have another opportunity to be scored on the tracking bird if your dog points it.)
When laying the first drag and even some of the free drags, carry some flagging tape with you so you can drop them along the track so you know where the track is. ( I use septic field flags, they are a small flag on a piece of wire, and you can just chuck them into the ground).
As mentioned when you do this run the track from field to heavier edges or different edges, like woods or heavier co ver.
For the first track I would use a 20 foot check cord and walk behind the dog, you don't say anything, just walk the track, following the dog, (some times they get so excited they loose focus. The check cord will just keep the dog in the area if it decides to run off or back track. The dog will hit the end of the check cord and change direction and cross the track again.)
You may not need to do this if your dog is focused. If you do just once should be enough.
The next track, Using the pheasant you did before if it did not get mauled and you can find it if your dog found it and pointed and did not run off;
Run the next bird out you throwing down the flags along the track as you chase the bird out into deeper cover.
No check cord on the dog now.
Bring your dog to the pile of feathers at the begining of the track,
take lead off.
hold dog by collar, (do not let anyone talk you into using a slip lead release).
bring your dog through the first 10 feet or so of the track, you want to know your dog picked up the scent and is not distracted.
You will know because all of a sudden your dog will start pulling down the track, release the dog and stand there looking out over the field, not at the dog, let the dog work. The dog finds the bird and points or the bird ran off further.
You need only do this just a few times.
Rememeber, the dog may not track the bird directly on the track, your dog may be down wind 5, 10, 15 yards also some dogs do not track with the head down. Some dogs run full tilt. None of these are faults, if they are tracking the bird scent.

Good luck,
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by birddog1220 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:27 am

hey rick was just wondering why you said dont let anyone talk you in to a slip lead? not trying for arguments,myself i have had great luck using them. i like them for the fact that 1-when made long enough that you dont pull the dogs head off the track head still low.2-everytime i put it on the dog knows its going to track. also for me i get a good release when using them wich is very important. what do you use and how do you release them?



jim ritze

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Ruffshooter » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:10 am

Jim, It is just one more thing for a novice to do wrong. If you pull the lead through the collar the wrong direction, when you release it , the lead will slap the dog in the head. It is a fine tool if you are used to it and very familiar with it. But being this Is Eddie's first time through any of this, I just think it is less to think about and less to go wrong.

Rick
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Rick

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by birddog1220 » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:23 am

no thats fine i thought maby you had a different way. im always up for new ways tricks and secrets.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Hattrick » Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:52 pm

Being scored on the track, does your dog have too run the exact track for the best score? I have noticed that Luci when we do this will run the track down wind 10-20' of it sometimes, she always finds the bird an delivered it to hand mostly every time.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:27 am

She should be fine, many dogs do that. I have one that you would never know she is tracking because of her speed and too she is down wind of the track. Four on her track.

Usually what gets you dinged is following the track then going hunting then coming back. Not paying attention to the track etc. It depends on how much of that goes on.

I have one that circle tracks, but alwasy moves up on the track each pass. He ended up with a three.

To get any points the dog must acknowledge the track. Some times the dog will loose the track for what ever reason but search for it again, find it and move on. That is good work also.

Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by larry » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 pm

I also second the no slip lead. I have seen as many handlers screw it up as those that do it right. I just hold the dog by the collar to get him started, once I think he is following the scent I let him go. If he is not following or paying attention go back to the feather pile and start again. Your dog is not under judgment untill you release him!

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by ACooper » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:01 pm

I recently ran my first NA test, I was most nervous about the track, in preparation I drug fresh killed pigeons and also had live pheasant that I used a few time just prior to the test. I always imagined that in order to score a 4 the dog needed to track like a blood hound, heck I didn't know what they would be looking for at all. my pup ran circles but did acknowledge the track when he crossed and would follow it. We did not come up with the bird which in my opinion was better for my pup as he was not big enough to retrieve it at the time but we did score a 4.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Ruffshooter » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:50 am

Congtrats ACooper.

The manner the dog tracks does not matter as long as it is acknowledging the track with purpose and does not give up and follow the track as far as possible.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by wems2371 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:29 pm

Good luck tomorrow Eddie & Winnie! :D Let us know how it goes.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Hattrick » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:18 am

Well ? how did you make out ?

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by EddieF » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:41 am

Thanks for following up. We decided not to do the test.

On our hunt, although things started well, she really got burned out going through very heavy cover, and then there was a big group in the next field just shooting up a storm and she started to get uncomfortable with the whole day. There were some positives, but I felt like I wanted her next day in the field to be just me and her, just my gun, some easy cover, and lots of fun. The newness, all the dogs, my nervousness, all the things that would be part of a NAVHDA test day didn't fit that bill, so I withdrew.

If you're interested, I wrote a long, detailed post on the blog about the day: http://hwvwinnie.blogspot.com/2009/10/g ... melly.html

This Friday we are going back out for hopefully a fun, easy day of finding birds. The place where I buy my birds has about a 5 acre field they rent out for cheap, and it should be friendlier cover and plenty big enough to shoot. So wish us luck, I'll try to get pictures Friday.

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Re: NAVHDA NA test - tracking?

Post by Hattrick » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:50 am

Good luck!

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