pointing lab question

[sjkennels]

ok well i am thinking about getting a pointing lab this coming summer. because i want a dog to retrieve doves. and for pointing pheasant and quail. so i figured you get the best of both worlds. and my gsp is way to hyper to set there and not move. so i guess what i am asking. is this true that you get both of the best worlds with a pointing lab? and do you train a pointing lab like a pointer or like a lab? with the marked retrieves and all of that. because it would be ran with my other pointing dogs as well.

[birddogger]

I don't know anything about labs but if it matters to you, you are not going to get the eye appealing style that you have with the GSP or EP. Just a thought.

Charlie

[sjkennels]

yea with a lab i wouldn't be going for style. i mainly want it for the retrieving. but i would still want it to be able to hunt with my GSP and EP. is why i was thinking of a pointing lab but i do like more the appealing style you get with the gsp and ep

[BellaDad]

You can train a GSP to sit still for a while. My dog went from laying down for about 5 seconds to about a half hour now while we eat dinner. Just a thought, why not use what you got.

[sjkennels]

yea that is a good thought. i might do that. but i think the other reason is that i do kinda want a lab. but i want one that i can run with my pointers.

[Georgia Boy]

No lab I have seen, pointing or not, is going to run with pointers. You might use the lab as a flusher.

[snips]

I agree that I would much rather have a Lab for flushing and if they start hesitating or pointing that would be good too. You might be mesing your pointing dogs up to run a Lab with them.

[Sharon]

You can train a GSP to sit still for a while. My dog went from laying down for about 5 seconds to about a half hour now while we eat dinner. Just a thought, why not use what you got.

This is what I would do. If you're having trouble teaching that GSP to stay on his butt until sent for the retrieve, why not put some of that money you would have used for a new dog into paying a Pro to work with the GSP?

[sjkennels]

thank you for your comments. i don't think i would have trouble teaching my gsp to sit and stay and retrieve. and i don.t like sending my dog to a trainer because i wouldn't know how it was being treated and how it was being trained. i have herd stories about peoples dog being beat and all of that. and i like taking my dogs out and training them.

[Sharon]

O-kay. That's definately your choice. I can assure you though that there are excellent trainers out there who would treat your dog as well as your own. I have one of that kind that I use occasionally.

[dmadis8]

I have a few friends who have pointing labs and they are both great dogs. Will hold a point just as long as any pointer, but they dont have the range. Its kind of a nice pair to have a dog that works out far and one that works a little closer. They are retrieving machines as well, but after all they are labs. Oh i forgot to mention both pups were very pricy, but they are out there and you can find them

[gonehuntin']

A great pointing lab is THE most versatile dog on the planet. They quarter and point, run multiple marks, handle to 300 yard blinds, love cold water.

Trouble is, it's hard to find one. Just because you buy a pointing lab, doesn't mean it'll point. Many don't. Many don't have nearly the amount of pointing desire the pointing breeds have. That's the chance you take. But IF you get a great one, Lordy, Lordy, what an animal.

[Shadow]

A great pointing lab is THE most versatile dog on the planet. They quarter and point, run multiple marks, handle to 300 yard blinds, love cold water.

Trouble is, it's hard to find one. Just because you buy a pointing lab, doesn't mean it'll point. Many don't. Many don't have nearly the amount of pointing desire the pointing breeds have. That's the chance you take. But IF you get a great one, Lordy, Lordy, what an animal.

ok- the most versatile on the planet- that's priceless- when trained to perfection- right

[Georgia Boy]

A great pointing lab is THE most versatile dog on the planet. They quarter and point, run multiple marks, handle to 300 yard blinds, love cold water.

I guess if sort of pointing and retreiving is all it takes to be versatile you might have a point, but it takes a whole lot more for me.

[gonehuntin']

A great pointing lab is THE most versatile dog on the planet. They quarter and point, run multiple marks, handle to 300 yard blinds, love cold water.

I guess if sort of pointing and retreiving is all it takes to be versatile you might have a point, but it takes a whole lot more for me.

"Sort of pointing and retrieving"? We're talking about a VERSATILE dog here; one that can work a dove field as a staunch retriever, a bird field pointing or a duck blind in frigid water. VERSATILE. What more is there?

If all you're into is the classic pointer, then no, you probably wouldn't be happy with a pointing lab. Some have gorgeous points thought, but they'll never keep up with a pointer in the field.

If you're a hunter though, it's a pretty deadly combination to have one dog working the horizon, and one in close.

[stetson82]

to answer your original ? you have to train them like both. I start with the retriver training then progress to the upland training. You want to find a pup that is naturaully pointing at a young age. I have a litter and most where pointing pigeons at 5 weeks with no training. The build of most pointing labs is getting leggier with more angles and thier running ability has increased. I run min with plenty of pointers with no problem. They will even run with my gsp for a couple hours. but then taper off. in my opinion the pointing labs are the best waterfowl hunters the best companions and maybe not the best upland dogs but sure up there. I have even run my labs against eps and gsps at a local hunt club trial and turned in better times.

[Georgia Boy]

gonehuntin' » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:04 pm

Georgia Boy wrote:
A great pointing lab is THE most versatile dog on the planet. They quarter and point, run multiple marks, handle to 300 yard blinds, love cold water.




I guess if sort of pointing and retreiving is all it takes to be versatile you might have a point, but it takes a whole lot more for me.


"Sort of pointing and retrieving"? We're talking about a VERSATILE dog here; one that can work a dove field as a staunch retriever, a bird field pointing or a duck blind in frigid water. VERSATILE. What more is there?

If all you're into is the classic pointer, then no, you probably wouldn't be happy with a pointing lab. Some have gorgeous points thought, but they'll never keep up with a pointer in the field.

If you're a hunter though, it's a pretty deadly combination to have one dog working the horizon, and one in close

For me versatile includes fur work, dispatching predators, big game ( which where I live is limited to wild boar but includes bear and mountian lion in other parts of the country), bloodtracking wounded game, field work (pointing , retrieving) and water work. Now thats what I call versatile and I love having one dog that does all of that and does it well.

[Dave C]

We dont get pointing Labs here in the UK, (mores the pity they sound quality).
So a quick question if i may, are they a pure bred Lab with the Pointing instincts increased or have they a little GSP or Pointer in there.

Dave.

[Trekmoor]

I have seen several lab X pointers (English ) working and was impressed by them. A gamekeeper in the Scottish borders always had a couple of them. They were deliberately bred by him to work the grouse moors as pointers and retrievers then later in the season they were used as "picking up" dogs at big driven pheasant shoots.

I would imagine that a good lab mated to a good pointer and then the most suitable pups mated back to the lab again would produce some very useful pups.

Bill T.

[Rick Hall]

Thought everyone knew a dog has to carry a fox over a fence to be versatile. What Lab could accomplish such a feat???

[Georgia Boy]

And labs are the only dogs that can run a blind :roll:

[Rick Hall]

And labs are the only dogs that can run a blind :roll:

Is the German Master Hunter Exam (VGB) still allowing rock chucking to guide dogs on 20 meter blinds?

Think I may have heard they've now doubled that distance but kept the rocks, and believe their US cousins at NAVHDA require a whopping 80 yard blind, sans stones, at their Invitational level.

(For the record, I'm just having some fun with the ongoing "V-dog" debate. I'd find a big wheeled pointing dog that retrieves and handles well more "versatile" - for my purposes - but if limited to the range many representatives of big "V" breeds work, I can certainly see Gone's argument.)

[Shadow]

yeh Rick-Kie wasn't versatile- oh wait- you didn't kill fur over him

[Rick Hall]

But he wished I would have. Had to be broken off fur like most dogs that aren't used for it.

[Georgia Boy]

We're talking about a VERSATILE dog here; one that can work a dove field as a staunch retriever, a bird field pointing or a duck blind in frigid water. VERSATILE. What more is there?

I was simply stating what versatile dog work was to me. How many well trained dogs have you seen test in the VGP? I grew up primarily with labs, AKC,UKC,HRC. I know what they can do and what they excell at, and for multiple marks and handeling they are the best. I love to hunt anything there is a season for and dont want to keep a retriever, pointers, hounds and a catch dog so I got the next best thing. To each their own.

[gonehuntin']

For me versatile includes fur work, dispatching predators, big game ( which where I live is limited to wild boar but includes bear and mountian lion in other parts of the country), bloodtracking wounded game, field work (pointing , retrieving) and water work. Now thats what I call versatile and I love having one dog that does all of that and does it well.

There would be NO WAY IN heck that I'm going to let a valuable pointing dog or retriver pursue boar, bear, or lion. That's foolish. I think too much of my dogs to use them for that.

[Georgia Boy]

Like I said, to each their own. While you have pointers or retrievers I have versatile dogs that are used for a much broader range of hunting. I am sure I care about my dogs just as much as you care about yours and know full well the risks involved in some of the hunting they participate in. I try to prepare them the best that I can and then they learn from experience. Its kind of like your kid studying for their drivers lisence exam. They pass the written part, then the little driving part, the rest they learn on the road. 1000's of people are killed on the roads every year. Auto accidents are the # 1 cause of death for teenagers, do you let your kids drive? I let my dogs hunt

[sjkennels]

i dont see a reason why not to use dogs for boar or bear. if you take the right precautions. they have vests that protect the chest of the dogs. and i know most everyone uses more than one dog. so the boar or bear never has a chance to go after just one dog. and on the bear the dogs tree them. and its rarely that the bear will stay on the ground. with a pack of dogs behind it. but thats my thought on it. but then i wouldn't use a pointer or a retriever. i would use a dog that was meant for the that job.

[Shadow]

But he wished I would have. Had to be broken off fur like most dogs that aren't used for it.

right- I've seen a few nice fur dogs- plenty of mice in these fields

[careyrob]

We dont get pointing Labs here in the UK, (mores the pity they sound quality).
So a quick question if i may, are they a pure bred Lab with the Pointing instincts increased or have they a little GSP or Pointer in there.

Dave.

Dave,

Pointing labs are 100% Labrador Retriever. You can find breeders on the American Pointing Labrador Association website.(www.americanpointinglab.com)

My pointing lab is AKC registered and has many US, Canadain and the UK field trial hall of fame dogs in his pedigree. I'd put him up against any non-pointing (flushing) Lab of similar age on waterfowl or upland game to show that nothing is lost in the breeding. In fact, some of the best pointing lab kennels breed back to field trial non-pointing lab stock every few generations to make sure that they keep everything that makes the breed one of the best all purpose dogs ever developed.

The APLA test rules state:
"Owners entering each Certified Pointing Retriever hunt test must provide proof that the dogs are AKC, UKC, or CKC registered when mailing in the premium. A photocopy of the dog’s registration papers must be included unless otherwise specified on the entry premium. "

The APLA by-laws state:
The objectives and purpose of the APLA shall be:
1. Identify, certify, and promote a strain of Labrador Retriever that points game as a natural act while retaining the Labrador's traditional superior ability to retrieve game on land and in water.
2. Promote favorable national exposure for Pointing Labradors.
3. Sponsor certification, advanced, and master level tests to identify Pointing Labradors and to judge their abilities.
4. Promote ethical and effective breeding and training of Pointing Labradors.
5. Accumulate data, and where possible promote studies, which may help understand the genetic basis for the tendency of some Labradors to point game.
6. Promote sharing of information and training among members of the APLA.
7. In conjunction with, and in addition to the foregoing, to engage in any other lawful acts or activities for which corporations may be formed under the Illinois Not-For-Profit Corporations Act, provided the Articles of Incorporation are amended as necessary to provide authority to engage in such activity.

I hope this is helpful.

[Trekmoor]

I see we've jumped on for a couple of years here. I have seen a few labs that point,all of them did so naturally with no encouragement needed. None of them had the style of pointing bred dogs and none that I have seen pointed at the distances from the game often seen in the pointing breeds. The labs were close range pointers. On the other hand these labs were good retrievers , one of them had won in trials. They were good at what they were bred for and adequate at hunting and pointing. I thought they were very useful animals.

Bill T.

[nikegundog]

From the Labrador Retriever Club (AKC parent club):
POINTING LABRADORS

The clear and unarguable fact is that the Labrador is a retriever, not a pointing dog. There may be a residual instinct to point in certain Labradors. That does not make the Labrador a pointing breed. It was bred for use as a retriever of game and in this country particularly, as a waterfowl retriever. There are any number of sporting breeds that excel at pointing upland game as well as flushing such game. The Labrador is not one of those breeds and should not be bred or sold to the public as a pointing breed.

[birddog1968]

From the Labrador Retriever Club (AKC parent club):
POINTING LABRADORS

The clear and unarguable fact is that the Labrador is a retriever, not a pointing dog. There may be a residual instinct to point in certain Labradors. That does not make the Labrador a pointing breed. It was bred for use as a retriever of game and in this country particularly, as a waterfowl retriever. There are any number of sporting breeds that excel at pointing upland game as well as flushing such game. The Labrador is not one of those breeds and should not be bred or sold to the public as a pointing breed.

I think the market has answered

And reputable kennels offer a guarantee usually.....again it's all in what you want.....

I do ask myself, when should have, or is, the evolution of the breeds supposed to stop? was it 1750, 1850..........2011, never?

[Chukar12]

I do ask myself, when should have, or is, the evolution of the breeds supposed to stop? was it 1750, 1850..........2011, never?

I shorely do think it is the nature of humans to want the gate shut right after they get through it...

[nikegundog]

I think the market has answered

And reputable kennels offer a guarantee usually.....again it's all in what you want.....

I do ask myself, when should have, or is, the evolution of the breeds supposed to stop? was it 1750, 1850..........2011, never?

Your right the market has answered, there in a niche.
As for when is the evolution suppose to stop: I would say this has very little to do with evolution. If you believe that dogs belong in the show ring and not in the field, you would probably say that Sussex Spaniels have evolved nicely.
And yes birddog, I've seen the photos, there is no doubt you have a very fine pointing lab.