Probably Screwed Up

[txfour]

First of, I am working with a BLM. I purchased him and am training him using Water Dog to be a duck/dove dog.

I worked with Zeke fr a bit this evening, he's doing 100% better at sitting. I did some fun retrieves and he did fine.

Well, I thawed a froze quail as I knew I was going to be working with him tonight.

I got it out and he was pumped, jumping, thrashing, he wanted that sucker. I threw it about 20 yards and he bolted after it. Brought it right back to me. Excellent dog right!???

Now for the bad news. I pet him and tell him good boy for about 10 seconds. I then try and take it, he snaps at me while keeping it in his mouth. I try again, no snap but he aint letting go.

I sit on the ground with him (bout 5 minutes) and talk to him and tell him good boy. It's his and I aint gettin it.

I pick him up with it in his mouth and carry him to my truck so i can get a dove scent bumper out. He ain't having that either.

I was out of option and ideas but I knew I did not want him to eat it. So, I did the only thing I knew to do the ear pinch. I had already tried several times to open his mouth but was getting nowhere. Who knew how tight a 11 week old dog could clamp.

Now, his first introduction to feathers was a dead whole quail. I then purchased three live ones. He did fine with all. I actually got two retrieves out of each live bird before they died.

So, how bad did I screw up and what should I have done? Has anyone battled this before? He's still out there right now looking for that sucker!

[birddogger]

I l ove the name Zeke for a dog. My youngest GSP is named Zeke. Now, I would just like to say that there are many others on here that can give you a better a better answer than me. I will say this though, I would never allow one of my dogs to growl or snap at me and get away with it!!!!!!!!!!

Charlie

[txfour]

Oh, he didn't. Don't worry about that.

[snips]

NeXt time you want a bird from his mouth reach back and gently pull up on his flank skin til he releases it. Then praise him, I would never try to barter for what he has, it should be yours when you want to take it.

[natetnc]

I then try and take it, he snaps at me while keeping it in his mouth.

I will say this though, I would never allow one of my dogs to growl or snap at me and get away with it!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, he didn't. Don't worry about that.

confused

do not praise him when he is being possesive, you will only make it worse.

[TEX-X]

this sounds crazy....but blow in his ear....he'll probably drop it...just don't get bit in the face....

[Dennmor]

First of, I am working with a BLM. I purchased him and am training him using Water Dog to be a duck/dove dog.

I worked with Zeke fr a bit this evening, he's doing 100% better at sitting. I did some fun retrieves and he did fine.

Well, I thawed a froze quail as I knew I was going to be working with him tonight.

I got it out and he was pumped, jumping, thrashing, he wanted that sucker. I threw it about 20 yards and he bolted after it. Brought it right back to me. Excellent dog right!???

Now for the bad news. I pet him and tell him good boy for about 10 seconds. I then try and take it, he snaps at me while keeping it in his mouth. I try again, no snap but he aint letting go.

I sit on the ground with him (bout 5 minutes) and talk to him and tell him good boy. It's his and I aint gettin it.

I pick him up with it in his mouth and carry him to my truck so i can get a dove scent bumper out. He ain't having that either.

I was out of option and ideas but I knew I did not want him to eat it. So, I did the only thing I knew to do the ear pinch. I had already tried several times to open his mouth but was getting nowhere. Who knew how tight a 11 week old dog could clamp.

Now, his first introduction to feathers was a dead whole quail. I then purchased three live ones. He did fine with all. I actually got two retrieves out of each live bird before they died.

So, how bad did I screw up and what should I have done? Has anyone battled this before? He's still out there right now looking for that sucker!

What are you thinking???!!!

You can't take a dog you don't know, and one that doesn't know you, and start off expecting things of each other!
You're gonna have to spend some time getting to know each other, establishing some trust, and understanding.
First of all you have to be smarter than the dog. :roll:
What's the saying? Don't set your dog up for failure.
If he won't give you the bird, don't fight him for it. GET ANOTHER BIRD OUT AND THROW IT. What ever he brings back make him sit, he will sit right?
Tell him what a good boy he is and tell him to stay, he knows stay right?
While he's busy "staying" take the bird out of his mouth. If he doesn't want to give it to you, grab him by the neck and lay on top of him. By now you should have the bird in your hands and he should be completely confused and intimidated (right where you want him). While he's confused, send him for the other bird. When he brings it back, and he will 'cuz he's confused, heap bunches of good boys on him!!
When ever he won't give you the bird, grab him by the neck lay on top of him. In case you're not following me, YOU'RE THE BIG DOG!!! It's essential that both of you know this!

BTW, after you do this two or three times you'll both be aware of who the big dog is and this should no longer be a problem. And things will go a lot smother.

If it's still a problem, repeat the steps but instead of grabbing him around the neck, bite him on the ear. Sooner or later he'll get the message, "YOU'RE THE BIG DOG!!!"

What’s up with the “fun retrieves”? Are they different than “real retrieves”? They shouldn’t be, ALL retrieves should be real and fun, NO EXCEPTIONS. Trust me your dog will appreciate the clarity, all retrieves will be made and they will all be fun! It’s up to you to make sure he understands that they all must be brought back, and how much fun they are by loving him up when he does that!

If you work on these basic concepts, the dog will feel good about the fact that he knows who the big dog is and that he can look to him for direction and guidence. And he'll be glad to repond to what the big dog says.
If you can't follow the above suggestions, maybe you could get your wife to read this reply and have her give it a shot!
(just kiding)((not really))

I hope you see that I'm having fun but trying to get important info across.

Best of luck,
dennmor

BTW, what's a BLM? Bureau of Land Management?

[wems2371]

Black Lab Male

He's just 11 weeks old. My newest pup did the very same thing the first few times I gave her a bird. She didn't snap, but had a death grip, even at 8 weeks old. I was able to pry the bird out though. This is just me, but I backed off with the birds after a few times of letting her carry them, as she'd shown me she would. I just wanted to be sure to give her the experience my older dog missed out on as a pup. I wasn't really thinking about it, but we've done quite a few hallway retrieves since then, with puppy bumpers. The other day she (now 4 months old) did a pheasant drag track, and was brought in with checkcord, she dropped the bird as she got to me--and I grabbed it up. Maybe it was a fluke, but I think the retrieve work with the nonbird objects helped to give her an idea what I wanted with the birds.....because both my GSPs lose some brain power with a bird in front of them. :roll: I don't know how much retrieve work you've done, but if he's shown you he's birdy and willing to fetch/carry, you might let up on that for now and go to some bumper work. Just some thoughts...

[txfour]

Holy crap Dennmor! Put down the coffee and take a breath.

He's only 11 weeks old. Not sure body slamming him at this point would do much for the retrieving.

I get your point, I need to be the alpha. I have four other dogs and I am. Just wasn' t sure what to do with a pup this age that didn't want to let go. Harsh treatment can send bad vibes on retrieves at this age. If he were 8-12 month, heck ya. But I don't want him to hate retrieves already.

[snips]

"Lay on top of him"???????

[txfour]

Well, I guess the ear pinch ruined him.

I threw five bumpers to him tonight and he did not pick up a single one. He has brought them back to me since the day I brought him home, not tonight.

[wems2371]

You didn't ruin him. Just give him time. Is there something else he likes, like tennis balls or a favorite toy?....something he can't resist that isn't training related. Throw that some for him and don't worry about the retrieve quality. Just let him have fun, even if it means prancing around. After a day or two of that, throw a bumper in the mix, and then wean him back to bumpers and back to retrieving. Don't overdue it and quit while you're ahead. He's probably a little confused right now, but you'll get him back on track!

[birddogger]

this sounds crazy....but blow in his ear....he'll probably drop it...just don't get bit in the face....

Blowing in the ear has always worked for me.

Charlie

[Ron R]

Here's what I do. If the dog or pup goes and retrieves the object and brings it back but don't want to give it to me. I take my left hand and hold it near the object ready for the release and I take my right hand and grip him around the waist where the haunches end and the mid section begins. At this point I put a Von Eric iron claw like pressure / squeeze until he squeels and drops the object. As soon as he drops it I release the pressure and praise him with good boy give and thats how my dogs learn the give command. I would'nt worry too much about an 11 week old pup snaping at you just don't let it happen again.

Ron

[tommyboy72]

Blowing in the nose does the same thing as blowing in the ear. With a dog that is being aggressive though you can use the thing they use to clear a baby's nose with, I call them a snot sucker at my house, not sure of the technical name for them. Just give them a shot of air in pne of the nostrils and they will drop the bird. Pain in the butt to have to carry something else in the field with you but better than getting bit in the face.

I have tried Denmor's method of intimidating a dog and showing them who is the big dog by biting the ear or rolling them on their back and just holding them there but more times than not in my situation they got scared and shut down where they did not want to do anything except get the heck away from me. I actually had to coax them into retrieving the birds again and that took a few days to a week. If you do not want to have to suspend retriever training I would not try it but it is up to you. No offense Denmor I am just relating my own experiences trying the force methods.

[birddogger]

Blowing in the nose does the same thing as blowing in the ear. With a dog that is being aggressive though you can use the thing they use to clear a baby's nose with, I call them a snot sucker at my house, not sure of the technical name for them. Just give them a shot of air in pne of the nostrils and they will drop the bird. Pain in the butt to have to carry something else in the field with you but better than getting bit in the face.

I have tried Denmor's method of intimidating a dog and showing them who is the big dog by biting the ear or rolling them on their back and just holding them there but more times than not in my situation they got scared and shut down where they did not want to do anything except get the heck away from me. I actually had to coax them into retrieving the birds again and that took a few days to a week. If you do not want to have to suspend retriever training I would not try it but it is up to you. No offense Denmor I am just relating my own experiences trying the force methods.

Yes, blowing in the nose works as well as the ear. What I like about either one of these is there is no fuss or pain and he gives you the bird. Nothing bad has happened.

Charlie

[Ruffshooter]

11 weeks old. Whats the big deal. Don't make more of it than it is. Your pup will learn its place. Lift the flank. or just a squeeze on its sharp teeth and lip. Do your normal house training, throw just a few bumpers, growls at you pop him under the chin take the bumper.

[Dennmor]

What are you thinking???!!!

You can't take a dog you don't know, and one that doesn't know you, and start off expecting things of each other!
You're gonna have to spend some time getting to know each other, establishing some trust, and understanding.
First of all you have to be smarter than the dog. :roll:
What's the saying? Don't set your dog up for failure.
If he won't give you the bird, don't fight him for it. GET ANOTHER BIRD OUT AND THROW IT. What ever he brings back make him sit, he will sit right?
Tell him what a good boy he is and tell him to stay, he knows stay right?
While he's busy "staying" take the bird out of his mouth. If he doesn't want to give it to you, grab him by the neck and lay on top of him. By now you should have the bird in your hands and he should be completely confused and intimidated (right where you want him). While he's confused, send him for the other bird. When he brings it back, and he will 'cuz he's confused, heap bunches of good boys on him!!
When ever he won't give you the bird, grab him by the neck lay on top of him. In case you're not following me, YOU'RE THE BIG DOG!!! It's essential that both of you know this!

BTW, after you do this two or three times you'll both be aware of who the big dog is and this should no longer be a problem. And things will go a lot smother.

If it's still a problem, repeat the steps but instead of grabbing him around the neck, bite him on the ear. Sooner or later he'll get the message, "YOU'RE THE BIG DOG!!!"

What’s up with the “fun retrieves”? Are they different than “real retrieves”? They shouldn’t be, ALL retrieves should be real and fun, NO EXCEPTIONS. Trust me your dog will appreciate the clarity, all retrieves will be made and they will all be fun! It’s up to you to make sure he understands that they all must be brought back, and how much fun they are by loving him up when he does that!

If you work on these basic concepts, the dog will feel good about the fact that he knows who the big dog is and that he can look to him for direction and guidence. And he'll be glad to repond to what the big dog says.
If you can't follow the above suggestions, maybe you could get your wife to read this reply and have her give it a shot!
(just kiding)((not really))

I hope you see that I'm having fun but trying to get important info across.

Best of luck,
dennmor

BTW, what's a BLM? Bureau of Land Management?

First of all I thought the dog was alot older.
Second of all you all are right, it was over the top!
What it sounds like this morning wasn't what I was trying to say last night. :roll:
Please accept my apologies,
dennmor

[gonehuntin']

For God sake, the man has a PUPPY!!!

The first thing is to IMMEDIATELY buy Fowl Dawgs 1-2 &3 and watch them. That will give you a training plan. Write down that plan is sequence and follow that plan. YOU have to know HOW to train the pup BEFORE you can train him.

Now for the puppy development. Don't worry about him not giving you the bird. Many pups do it. Always have him on a 20' check cord so when you throw him the bird, yo can gently reel him in with the bird so it doesn't play with it. DO NOT take the bird from him immediately. Let him parade around with it for ten seconds or so showing you how proud he is, then take the bird. If he sets his feet and doesn't want to give it up, say drop firmly land pinch his upper jowls gently on his upper canines. He WILL let got. Praise him, love him up, and do it again.

The best things you can to for that pup at this tender age is to show him plenty of love, take him everywhere with you, teach him NO, expose him to a thousand birds, various covers, and get him into the water.

If you follow these suggestions, you'll end up with a find dog.

[birddogger]

I think some of us missed the fact that the puppy was just 11 weeks old. I know I did, I had to go back and read it again.

Charlie

[TEX-X]

ohh 11 weeks yeah i missed it too....don't ask so much of him...and when he gets a bit older....blow in his ear for him to drop the dummy....

[twofeathers]

Yes blowing in the ear is great advice. Works for me also.