When to begin bird training?

conradr · Post by **conradr** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm new to the pointing dog game and I have a few questions. My yellow lab turned 14 in March and I was looking for a smaller breed (and a pointing dog) as three little boys have taken over the room once reserved for dogs in our vehicles. After a good deal of research and book reading I went with a Brittany from an established breeder in northern Wisconsin. I can easily sat that she has not disappointed. She learns quicker than any dog I or my wife has ever trained. At 14 weeks she would "sit" and "down" on only hand signals given by by 5-4-and 3-year old boys. She loves to retrieve and delivers to hand. I've been very patient with her as I've heard over and over what a sensitive breed the Brittany is. She just seems to pick things up so quickly that within two or three days of two or three 10-minute sessions she'll have a new command under control. This past Saturday and Sunday I began working on the "whoa" command. I can now "whoa" her, walk up to a training dummy out in front of her and kick it, and she'll stay solidly in place until I release her. I can walk all around her and pull on the check cord and she won't move. She's about 4-1/2 months old.

That's the background, here are my questions:

1. When can/should I introduce her to birds? I've read not to introduce birds (pigeons, etc.) until they're at least a year old. I don't want to be impatient and rush her, but I'd also like to keep going as long as she's ready, willing, and able.

2. If I do start on birds, should I plant dead pigeons and just allow her to work on scenting them, holding her on point at first scent? Or do I go straight to live birds? My plan for live birds is to tie a piece of garden hose to their legs so they can't go too far and I can use them again (Delmar Smith method).

3. I haven't yet decided if I'm going to have her spayed. I've read in different places not to have it done until they reach physical and sexual maturity (I'm not sure why). At what age should this be done, if I'm going to do it? And if I don't, can I hunt with her if she's in heat (in desolate areas where we won't encounter other hunters/dogs)?

4. She's crazy about pointing robins, sparrows, whatever she sees in the yard. I've given her the "whoa" command on them and she's handled nicely. Is this a bad idea?

Thanks in advance for any help you're able to offer.

Rick

Post by **Sharon** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:57 pm

Welcome to the forum!!

#1 No need to wait for a year. sounds like she's ready. You start when they are ready. I don't teach whoa with handler intervention so I can't help you there.
#4 I don't think that is a problem. As she matures and has experience she'll have no trouble figuring out what the "real birds" are.

I know quite a few Brittany owners and I've never heard them described as 'sensitive". Don' t be too easy on her.

wfkgsps · Post by **wfkgsps** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:26 pm

To have a bold, confident pup you need to give your pup contact with birds. One way you can do this is use a locked wing pigeon. Use a confined area so she can't run off, then toss it out in front of her. Let her start handling birds. If she retreives great, but you're not working on that. She needs to know birds are fun and they won't hurt her. After she's been introduced to locked wings, you can move to clipped wings. The birds can fly a short distance, but can't fly off. All this builds confidence in her. You've taken the right approach with being patient, but IMO she's of age to be introduced to birds. Good luck and have fun...this is a great place to receive info!

SwitchGrassWPG · Post by **SwitchGrassWPG** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:08 am

Get a pup on birds as soon as possible. The sooner the better. The most important time frame for introducing anything the dog will be exposed to as an adult is between 8 and 20 weeks. Hopefully the breeder gave them exposure before you picked up.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:33 am

You have a big transition to make, flushing dog to pointing dog. One of the things you have to do is to let that dog run and develop independence. That is a big key in pointing breeds.

Next, get the dog on birds. I don't know who ever told you not to put them on birds until a year, but they're dead wrong. I have mine on birds from 8-10 weeks on, both retrieving and pointing. In this respect, treat them like a retriever, lots of retrieves and lots of pointing ON A CHECKCORD.

A pointer isn't a retriever, so you don't spend as much time on them. Put a pointing breed on pen birds much more than three times a week and you risk flagging and soft points, boredom on the dog's part.

You'll need an all around dog is Wi. so get it in the water. Expsose him on walks to all varried terrain; woods, hills, swamp, water, fields and watch and enjoy how he learns.

Brittanies are great little dogs, I think you'll really enjoy this one.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:55 am

thus web site should require everyone who posts to list the state they live in so experienced people on here could give advice based on wether there are wild birds in the area

to the posters question,

start now

I would be walking the dog in the fields you plan to hunt if possible and let her learn about all the stuff in them if thats possible, if no wild bird populations are available plant LIVE pigeons not dead ones you want her to point on scent not go in

if the dog is timid you should buy some good flying quail at first, but if the dog is bold go right to pigeons or much better wild birds

A good brittany is going to figure it out with just a little exposure

if you live in southern WI there are some pockets of good pheasant populations I would try and get permission to walk the pup in those areas

you shouldn't be whoaing her when she points birds tweety or otherwise

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:30 am

Ditto all of the above, but would add. Do not do pointing drills on dead birds. If you wish to drag the dead bird through the field or woods and let her find it and play with it or give it to you to chuck out there for some fun retrieves that is a good idea. But no pointing drills on dead birds.

Another thing look for post on gun introcuciton. That should be happening after few good excited bird exposures.

When fall come in and you know where there are some good wood cock holding areas or if you notice a flight of wood cock come it. Take the pup out let her loose, no talking let her figure stuff out.

Let that pup have its head.
Sounds like you are doing great and so is the pup.

Have fun.
RicK

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Fri May 22, 2009 8:26 am

Rick -

I am one of those who does not intrduce birds to their dogs until they are just about ready to be steadied to wing and shot. However I am doing it with a specific breed and type of dog(pointer- from field trial lines) and I am doing it with a specific goal in mind(field trialing).

I would offer you one piece of advice and that is a caution. Your dog is still a puppy...a very, very young puppy. Always remember that and temper your expectations with that knowledge.

Brittanys are VERY capable bird dogs and have a great deal of desire to please, as a rule. Much of what you are seeing in your pup is the result of great genetics and tha intense desire to please. Always remember that your pup can do amazing things one moment and the next moment be a complete goofball. That is part of being a puppy

Just because a puppy(or any age dog, for that matter) does something right, one time, does not mean they "got it". Far from it. Always temper you expectaions with this knowledge and maintain a healthy sense of humor. Whatever you do with your pup...keep it short, keep it fun and always end on a good note.

I recommend that, whatever you decide to do about birds and such, you do a good bit of play training in the yard, building the trust, the cooperative mindset and obedience foundation in your youngster, upon which the field performance will be based.

As has been said, pointing breeds are bred to hunt with a little more independence than flushers, so the trust, the cooperation and the "connection" between dog and handler has to be there to allow you to "let the dog go" to do what it is capable of and bred for.

Sounds pretty good so far. Enjoy and have fun.

RayG

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Mon May 25, 2009 1:25 pm

as early as you feel is right-

I think you are doing right- whoa isn't a bad thing no matter what age

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon May 25, 2009 2:50 pm

conradr wrote:3. I haven't yet decided if I'm going to have her spayed. I've read in different places not to have it done until they reach physical and sexual maturity (I'm not sure why). At what age should this be done, if I'm going to do it? And if I don't, can I hunt with her if she's in heat (in desolate areas where we won't encounter other hunters/dogs)?

What I've learned on hear (GDF) regarding getting your dog spayed is that it is definately safer to wait until the dog matures both physically and sexually wich in my opinion is two years but some may say 18 mos. I don't think it hurts anything to wait.

Now, as far as hunting a female in heat. From my experience, that is a case by case issue that cann't be generalized. One female my do great hunting while in season while another may act plum goofy and uncharacteristic in the field. Only one way to find out and it's usually not on purpose. You may be out hunting and go "what the heck is wrong with my dog" and call her all the way to you and discover the heat cycle.

I will also agree on getting them on birds between 3 and 6 mos. Just let her have fun, make mistakes and be a pup. No Pressure like previously mentioned. Hope this helps

Ron

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:13 am

IMO there is no such thing as a puppy being to young to be introduced to birds. As has been said, just make sure the wings are locked or the bird is harnessed the first few times you introduce the birds. You don't want the pup getting slapped with wings and have a bad experience.

Charlie

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:12 am

birdogger- good advice- I had in my pup what I thought wouldn't hurt by starting him in pheasants real young- he was a bit reluctant to pick up a live rooster- didn't bother me- went easy and made sure to be more cautious on shots- soon as my female grabbed one he was looking at he started retrieving them- he's of the mind now that what falls from the sky is his

you just need to read a youngster and adapt- sometimes not try to force things on one

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:53 pm

It is amazing how fast they become bird crazy when introduced properly isn't it

Shadow wrote:birdogger- good advice- I had in my pup what I thought wouldn't hurt by starting him in pheasants real young- he was a bit reluctant to pick up a live rooster- didn't bother me- went easy and made sure to be more cautious on shots- soon as my female grabbed one he was looking at he started retrieving them- he's of the mind now that what falls from the sky is his

you just need to read a youngster and adapt- sometimes not try to force things on one

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:44 am

sure is-

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