I got my Dogtra 1100 on ebay. Wow, I think the e-collar is a great tool when used properly. I've used them before, but this is the first one I've owned.
I just feel like it can be over used by the trainer. I didn't want to start training with it on the dogs without putting it on me first, so I put it on my arm. I just wanted to feel what I was about to give the dogs. In fact, I discovered that when I used an e-collar before, I was using too high of a setting! Here is what I've experienced so far:
The Dogtra has 100 levels.
1 – Felt nothing at all
2-15 Felt small tingle
16-20 Getting warmer. Didn't hurt, but got uncomfortable.
This is as far as I have gone, but I will let you know how far I get. Thus far, I've used the setting 20 when training my dogs. I can see that they can feel the nick, but I do not get a yelp.
Strapping the e-collar on myself sounds crazy, but I do feel like I've gained respect for the collar and the animal I put it on. I was really scared when I had the collar strapped to me and Lindsay had the transmitter. Things get REAL uncomfortable when someone else is controlling the shock on you.
Just like anything else, when abused, it can have negative effects on the animal.
These are just some of my thoughts....
e-collar
Grant, thanks for taking the initiative to actually test out an e-collar. I'll probably do the same thing whenever I get one, just to feel what I'm giving the dog. You're right though, that there is some sort of initial fear and craziness in putting one on yourself. But, again, you learn what you're giving the dog and that builds respect for the proper use of the collar.
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WildRose
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Grant it may sound silly but I've done the same thing with every collar I've ever owned.
May latest collars are the DT systems 7302 series. Best overall collars Iv'e ever tried. The scale is graduated 0-50 and I can promise you that no human wants to feel anything over about 15. The one thing I dislike about the collars is that even the toughest dog I have can be made to hit the ground and scream or even fall over jerking at level 20. I would never turn it all the way up. When I questioned the designer about why this one was set to go so high it was because so many labs and Chessies simply require very high doses of "stimulation" to be effective and this is what the retriever guys had asked for. The maximum output is nearly twice what the old DT 500 collars were capable of and so they should be used with caution.
I'd encourage any trainer that wishes to use a collar to test them out the same way so they really understand just what they are doing with them, and to their dogs. CR
May latest collars are the DT systems 7302 series. Best overall collars Iv'e ever tried. The scale is graduated 0-50 and I can promise you that no human wants to feel anything over about 15. The one thing I dislike about the collars is that even the toughest dog I have can be made to hit the ground and scream or even fall over jerking at level 20. I would never turn it all the way up. When I questioned the designer about why this one was set to go so high it was because so many labs and Chessies simply require very high doses of "stimulation" to be effective and this is what the retriever guys had asked for. The maximum output is nearly twice what the old DT 500 collars were capable of and so they should be used with caution.
I'd encourage any trainer that wishes to use a collar to test them out the same way so they really understand just what they are doing with them, and to their dogs. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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Frenchy
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WildRose
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Grant if you want to see who grouse hunter is simply email the board op over at Shooting Sportsman. He's been banned there for being a nasty tempered trouble maker on at least three names. He's now making a home over on Versatile dogs where he's also been banned under several different names. Most of which involve oregon or gwp in some way.
If you want me to explain in detail the exact meaning of what he's referring to here I'll be glad to. It refers to a discussiona bout fighting dogs.
I had to break some very serious, troubled, fighting dogs, not just growlers, and posers, but dogs that would attack other dogs without warning for several customers over the years. Were they my own dogs I'd simply put them down. But that's not an option when it's a client dog.
The method which I settled on when all else fails is by collaring the dog on both ends, with the rear one being pulled tightly up through the fnanks of the dog and yes the electrodes centered on either side of the dogs penis.
At the first sign of attack, using as much force as the collars can generate to convince the dedicated fighter than no matter what pleasure he gains from fighting it will all be irrevocably overwhelmed by the pain.
I found it to be a simply fact that even a dog fully engaged in a fight will retreat and release his bite on another dog when he fears the family jewels are in danger.
Grouse boy has decided that this is cruel and inhumane and chooses to run around the net slandering me because of it.
Personally I agree it's a very harsh and brutal way to deal with it. However a collar around the neck alone will in my experience simply not stop the dedicated fighter. I've had to use this on one gsp, two gwp's, and several cowdogs over the years for people. It has worked where everythign else has failed.
Short of death it's the only sure cure I've found. CR
If you want me to explain in detail the exact meaning of what he's referring to here I'll be glad to. It refers to a discussiona bout fighting dogs.
I had to break some very serious, troubled, fighting dogs, not just growlers, and posers, but dogs that would attack other dogs without warning for several customers over the years. Were they my own dogs I'd simply put them down. But that's not an option when it's a client dog.
The method which I settled on when all else fails is by collaring the dog on both ends, with the rear one being pulled tightly up through the fnanks of the dog and yes the electrodes centered on either side of the dogs penis.
At the first sign of attack, using as much force as the collars can generate to convince the dedicated fighter than no matter what pleasure he gains from fighting it will all be irrevocably overwhelmed by the pain.
I found it to be a simply fact that even a dog fully engaged in a fight will retreat and release his bite on another dog when he fears the family jewels are in danger.
Grouse boy has decided that this is cruel and inhumane and chooses to run around the net slandering me because of it.
Personally I agree it's a very harsh and brutal way to deal with it. However a collar around the neck alone will in my experience simply not stop the dedicated fighter. I've had to use this on one gsp, two gwp's, and several cowdogs over the years for people. It has worked where everythign else has failed.
Short of death it's the only sure cure I've found. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
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emae
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WildRose
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Emae you do run that risk, if you are using it ONLY on the dogs neck. I almost hate to get into this subject again after all the garbage before.....
Now keep in mind we're discussing ONLY the worst cases where nothing else tried seemed to work. I would not recommend this be done by a novice under any circumstances because the risk to both dogs, and any humans involved is pretty high if it's not done exactly right... .
Yes I indeed found with some dogs the use of say a bark collar on the theory that a dog begins to growel or bark prior to the first bite, sometimes actually made things accelerate to a fight even quicker.
Using a the collar after the fight began (on the neck) often seemed to make the dog fight harder unless you had a collar so hot that the dog became physically unable to continue, which of course many dogs have a much higher resistance to electricity than others so that is why we keep coming up with hotter and hotter collars and better electrodes to make better skin contact.
However it's a widely accepted principle in dog training that putting the collar on the other end and using very mild stimulation will generally make a dog back up, or even jump backwards or to the side. This is a technique often employed for example with dogs that are prone to roading in to close on their birds or failing to back, or for other similar problems such as dogs that have had too much pressure put on them with whoa training or in making them hold a point whereby they instead of standing up, want to lay down or sit.
A little more juice will almost always cause not only the dog to jump back but often to snap at his waist as if to bite what's hurting him.
With very bad fighters I found that even a dog fully engaged and even having already bitten down (GPSP's are not typically snap and release biters when they are serious, they bite down and clamp hard just like a pit bull but without the locking jaws, this is why crushing injuries may extend for broad areas beyond the bite site and why GSP's and GWP's have both been known to snap leg and shoulder bones in a fight) will immediately release, jump back and usually end up on their side or back trying to stop the shock which they may percieve as a bite.
Yes this sounds gruesome, but as the last ditch effort to break a bad fighter when death is the only other option it can and does work.
Sorry to be so graphic but it seems necessary for a full explanation. CR
Now keep in mind we're discussing ONLY the worst cases where nothing else tried seemed to work. I would not recommend this be done by a novice under any circumstances because the risk to both dogs, and any humans involved is pretty high if it's not done exactly right... .
Yes I indeed found with some dogs the use of say a bark collar on the theory that a dog begins to growel or bark prior to the first bite, sometimes actually made things accelerate to a fight even quicker.
Using a the collar after the fight began (on the neck) often seemed to make the dog fight harder unless you had a collar so hot that the dog became physically unable to continue, which of course many dogs have a much higher resistance to electricity than others so that is why we keep coming up with hotter and hotter collars and better electrodes to make better skin contact.
However it's a widely accepted principle in dog training that putting the collar on the other end and using very mild stimulation will generally make a dog back up, or even jump backwards or to the side. This is a technique often employed for example with dogs that are prone to roading in to close on their birds or failing to back, or for other similar problems such as dogs that have had too much pressure put on them with whoa training or in making them hold a point whereby they instead of standing up, want to lay down or sit.
A little more juice will almost always cause not only the dog to jump back but often to snap at his waist as if to bite what's hurting him.
With very bad fighters I found that even a dog fully engaged and even having already bitten down (GPSP's are not typically snap and release biters when they are serious, they bite down and clamp hard just like a pit bull but without the locking jaws, this is why crushing injuries may extend for broad areas beyond the bite site and why GSP's and GWP's have both been known to snap leg and shoulder bones in a fight) will immediately release, jump back and usually end up on their side or back trying to stop the shock which they may percieve as a bite.
Yes this sounds gruesome, but as the last ditch effort to break a bad fighter when death is the only other option it can and does work.
Sorry to be so graphic but it seems necessary for a full explanation. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
WR,
I have a pair of fighting dogs, Do you think your method could break them up? See the video of the fighting here:
http://www.gundogforum.com/temp/carlandbellfight.wmv
Only kidding =)
Grant
I have a pair of fighting dogs, Do you think your method could break them up? See the video of the fighting here:
http://www.gundogforum.com/temp/carlandbellfight.wmv
Only kidding =)
Grant
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emae
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WildRose
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Grant I wish I had a way to video it... Maggie and Nash both weigh over fift lbs a piece. When they get into it around here nothing is safe! THey will chase, tackle, roll, mouth and literally sling each other all over the house, yard, bed, couch or where ever they are when it starts.
They absolutely love it too, yet neither one of them has ever even approached getting angry over it even though it looks and sounds as though they are dead set on killing each other. They'll keep it up till they wear out completely, then take a nap and start all over. It's hilarious!
That would be the reason too that we usually keep them separated... there just too hard on furniture! CR
They absolutely love it too, yet neither one of them has ever even approached getting angry over it even though it looks and sounds as though they are dead set on killing each other. They'll keep it up till they wear out completely, then take a nap and start all over. It's hilarious!
That would be the reason too that we usually keep them separated... there just too hard on furniture! CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people