to help against 'mouth chopping"

[WiskeyJaR]

Has anyone heard or used a "wieghted bar bell" in fetch training to combat heavy mouths? I have started to use a 2lb bar bell me wife has. It's covered in a rubber type stuff, so dog is not teething metal. Have been using the bar bell for about 2 weeks now. Last night's session, I used a frozen bird for the frist time in close to 3 months, due to Dutchess trying to chew on bird. Last night, Dutchess held the frozen bird with out once trying to chomp. was the frist ever "training session" I didnt have to deal with her hard mouth.

Am I just fooling me self, or have I maybe found something that works? Havnt used a live bird yet...gonna work a little more with the frozen birdfrist.

What's your thoughts folks?
The worlds worse speller,
WiskeyJaR

[crackerd]

Two things first: your spelling's plenty passable and you should ask that this topic be moved to "Training."

Now...some believe carrying heav(ier) objects promotes good mouth habits. The Brits do this as a rule, giving dogs weighted dummies before introducing them to game. I don't see it as help or hindrance--my dogs get introduced to birds about 10 minutes after they're introduced to bumpers. But they never get frozen birds. Some believe (I'm one of them) that frozen birds turn into a meat popsicle for dogs--because there's no give to frozen birds, the dog has to have a more secure (heavier) bite and bite down harder (heavier) to gain a grip.

Some retriever trainers carry this as far as forcing a dog on a frozen goose. This can be almost vaudeville. Think about frozen turkeys used as bowling balls. Many retrievers don't have a large enough mouth to comfortably get it around a frozen, full-plumaged goose. So they stretch the dog's mouth open...and then the mouth begins to shut--with a lot of psi behind it. And they assess the damage and think, "Oh, no, got myself a hardmouthed dog." They don't. They just need to have the dog retrieve something with the give and displacement of a goose--hey, a thawed goose, that'll work! Or even, if you're starting them toward retrieving geese, a teddy bear or large stuffed animal.

As for your situation, not enough info to know what to advise. Three months later with the dumbbell? Meaning the dog is how old now? Meaning it's still young, most likely, but too young to have been force fetched? Meaning (I'm inferring here), the dog's never had a fresh-killed bird or caught a clip-wing pigeon? At three months, my pups are getting birds both live and dead shot and thrown for them--that's an age when even a duck is so large for their mouths that they can't do it much damage. In fact, for pointing dog handlers who want their dogs to retrieve, I've always seen a duck as the perfect bird to start them in with for good mouth habits. Sure beats a dumbbell anyhow...

MG

[WiskeyJaR]

As for your situation, not enough info to know what to advise. Three months later with the dumbbell? Meaning the dog is how old now? Meaning it's still young, most likely, but too young to have been force fetched? Meaning (I'm inferring here), the dog's never had a fresh-killed bird or caught a clip-wing pigeon? At three months, my pups are getting birds both live and dead shot and thrown for them--that's an age when even a duck is so large for their mouths that they can't do it much damage. In fact, for pointing dog handlers who want their dogs to retrieve, I've always seen a duck as the perfect bird to start them in with for good mouth habits. Sure beats a dumbbell anyhow...

MG

a Little history....
this is me frist ever "hunting dog", so all training is new to me. Dutchess is about 20 months now. It was me own poor training that lead to her hard mouth in frist place, I let her catch pigeons when she was young I just started to use the dumbell about 2 weeks ago, havnt used the frozen bird in about 3 months. Have been using regular bumpers and toys in her fetch training.
I tried to do FF training last spring on me own, but stopped when she stoped responding to me at all. It was turning into a real battle in the training. Pigeon and a few quail is the only birds she has worked with so far.
In the past, she would retrive birds fine, just have them half ate before delivered to hand :/ On the frozen birds, she would in past stop and try to tear bird up, before retriving. Last night she did the "hold bird and heal" the search for "dead bird" and even held frozen bird in mouth with out any effort to chew.
suposse to be getting more "kill" birds this weekend, we'll see how she does with fresh birds. (fingers crossed)

P.S. could a mod move this to training section...wasnt thinking this morning :/

[crackerd]

Thanks for explaining. Once this thread's moved to Training, Evan Graham probably will zero in on it and advise following his retrieving material. That's a good idea, because you've now got a dog (and yourself) somewhat in quicksand with regard to retrieving. Evan's program is sequential and will have you (re)start from the beginning. Starting and finishing (operative word) force fetch. Eating a bird's probably only going to be overcome with absolute letter-perfect obedience ("Here" the instant the dog's mouth goes on a bird), but Evan may have another trick or two. Gonehuntin' from these parts can also spoon-feed you some real-life retrieving experience with difficult dogs.

Good luck,

MG

[aylaschamp]

I have had little success with frozen birds helping a hard mouth. They can bight harder. These are some good tools though.....http://www.gundogsupply.com/birharandres.html

[gonehuntin']

You're kidding yourself if you think either weighted bar bells or frozen birds have an effect on hard mouth. Most dog's hate frozen birds. How would you like someone make you sit there with a chunk of ice in your mouth? What it does do is to make live birds all the more desirable and more exciting. You're defeating your purpose.

Same with the barbell. The firmer a dog has to hold something, the greater propensity to crush a bird. You have to stop going around the problem, get Evan's Smart Fetch, and FOLLOW it. Dog trainers solve problems, they don't go around them. If you feel you can't do it, send the dog to a pro. The problem will worsen, not get better.