Biting Part II

dixieboy · Post by **dixieboy** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:00 pm

I picked up my gsp pup last weekend and he has been great with everything, but biting. I've tried just about all methods of repremand but nothing works. I've tried holding the muzzle with saying "NO". Flyswatter to the butt, fly swatter to the nose. I've tried biting him back, pretty hard too but he seems to think its all part of playing......I've tried letting out a loud high pitch yell, it startles him for a second but he just comes back for more fingers and face. Thats what really concerns me is the face biting, those teeth are like little nails. So, I guess what I'm asking is....Are there any other methods to try? And, how long does this biting phase last? Thanks in advance.

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:36 pm

Nothing will work if you continue to give the pup attention.

When pup gets too rough and bites, make a yell ("OUCH!!") and then get up and walk out of the room. Make sure the dog can't follow you, and is alone in the room for at least 20 to 30 seconds. Isolation at a young age is one of the most influential reprimand tools.

Think about it this way... when pups get too rough with each other, the pup that got bit usually shrieks and then runs away for awhile. You need to mimic that behavior.

Eventually the pup will learn that when it bites, playtime stops and it's left alone for awhile. To decrease the consequence, it will stop biting or will at least not bite as hard on your hands (to get a pup to stop mouthing altogether is a very difficult thing to do since their mouthes are basically their hands). Try it out and I bet you'll like the results.

Britmandogs · Post by **Britmandogs** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:13 pm

One thing you can try is to spray bitter apple on your fingers and other members of the household and then let the pup try and chew on them. This may take a few times but he will learn that it's not worth it. My wife did this with her cuffs on her shirts for two nights and my pup quit.

MNGSP · Post by **MNGSP** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:23 pm

Ayres,

I am dealing with a similar situation as DixieBoy. I also tried the yelp method and the ignore, but never left the room. I might give it a try.

What if the pup is trying to assert dominance? Would yelping and running away show the pup that it is the alpha of the pack?

I stopped using that method when those thoughts crossed my mind, as my pup is very bold. The only problem is, every other method I try she seems to think I'm playing, and gets more agressive.

Jon

Post by **Ayres** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:45 pm

Jon -

My experience with it is that, if you do it in a room where there's a door... you shut the door and don't let the dog have human contact for a short bit.

In that respect, you're the one asserting dominance by limiting the playtime to the parameters you set. Basically, you have something the dog wants -- attention. The dog must comply with what you want -- no biting -- in order to get what it wants. It quickly learns that you're in charge. I've never heard of any dominance issues with the yelp & ignore method.

Besides, any dominance issues should and are probably already taken care of through other channels, such as feeding time, running time, field time, etc. The dog will learn that you're the alpha because it can't take care of itself. It lacks the opposable thumbs needed to turn down the bedsheets and use the remote control.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:16 pm

Let me ask you all a question. How is a puppy supposed to show you love and how is it supposed to play with you? They can't talk, put their arms around you and give you a hug. The way they do it is to nibble. I've never seen a pup that doesn't bite. Repremand gently, give it something to chew on or whatever you want to do but you cqn't keep a pup from wanting to bite till it grows up. It will out grow it but right now its the only way it knows to communicate with you. Rush is getting chewed to death everytime I let Time out to play with him. Chewing is part of a puppy. Get used to it!

Ezzy

dixieboy · Post by **dixieboy** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:36 am

Thank you very much for the help. I know raising a pup is a process that takes a little bit of time, patience, and attention. Outgrowing it is probably the most effective way to stop the biting. However, his nibble breaks skin which makes it kinda tough for my wife to play around with him.

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:55 am

Has anyone tried to give them a hard swat on the nose and tell them "no biting" very sternly? That's always worked well for me. You can also try picking up the pup by the scruff of the neck and tell them the same thing or hold them down by their neck or even holding their snout closed. I agree with Ezzy in that they played with their littermates this way and need to learn that it's not acceptable to do with people. When the pups were here, a quick swift swat on the nose usually did the trick. I think the main thing you're trying to do here is show that you're the alpha and won't tolerate it. So, when you tell them "no" you need to do it firmly, not like your ticked off or fed up with it...they are very intuitive and pick up on these things and can tell the difference in your voice. I don't know about the fly-swatter...as he gets older, he's going to learn that it's a bad thing...kind of like hitting a pup with a newspaper...they remember that.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:55 am

Another method which i have found to be very effective is when the pup starts to bite or mouth you take two fingers and place them in the mouth sideways holding with the thumb under the jaw with the other hand place behind the head this is so that the pup can not get your fingers out of the mouth and hold this firm enough to keep the fingers in the mouth but not so firm you cause any harm ...Hold this until the pup stops struggling once the pup has stopped struggling then quick ask for the fingers back then put your hand in front of the muzzle the pup should Lick your hand give a stroke down the back and do something els e If the pup should try and Mouth your hand repeat the above...
Once the pup licks your hand this is a sign of submission to the lesson.....

good Luck

APRock · Post by **APRock** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:51 am

Used most of the techniques mentioned. Once I was certain that Tucker "knew" what was right and wrong, (biting, chewing on my sons socks, raiding the cats litter box), or knew he was fully trained in a command (Come, Sit, Stay), I then turned to the "Momma Dog" technique. Grab by the scruff of the neck (like Momma or a higher in the pack dog would do), a little shake and a deep, loud , gutteral "FOH!" He should go into a submissive down, if not, I put him in it. Sometimes he just goes down, others he resists a little, and always yowls bloody murder. Once he settles down and submitts, he goes in his crate for a while. These were acts of willful disobediance that he is being punished for, or ignoring commands that I am sure he knows when he doesn't have the e-collar on.

I still use this and he is a full grown dog.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:00 am

ezzy333 wrote:Let me ask you all a question. How is a puppy supposed to show you love and how is it supposed to play with you? They can't talk, put their arms around you and give you a hug. The way they do it is to nibble. I've never seen a pup that doesn't bite. Repremand gently, give it something to chew on or whatever you want to do but you cqn't keep a pup from wanting to bite till it grows up. It will out grow it but right now its the only way it knows to communicate with you. Rush is getting chewed to death everytime I let Time out to play with him. Chewing is part of a puppy. Get used to it!

I do agree, but I was under the impression that the fix for biting was for when the pup got a little out of control and not only came after hands, but snapped at the face too.

A pup should mouth quite a bit. It is how they play with littermates and the like. But even when a pup plays with a littermate and gets too rough, they receive some kind of signal that "ok, that one was too hard."

I did the yelp and ignore method with Justus when he was a few months old. I also had my wife do it for consistency. Within a week or two he was much better about his playing. He would still mouth our hands, especially if we were holding a toy, but whenever he got a finger or knuckle or whatever into his mouth he was very careful to not bite down excessively hard. To this day he's the same way. He knows that we're a source of fun for play, but not the same thing as a piece of rawhide.

To make it clear, I only advocate a reprimand when the pup bites too hard, not when it bites altogether.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:03 am

APRock wrote:Used most of the techniques mentioned. Once I was certain that Tucker "knew" what was right and wrong, (biting, chewing on my sons socks, raiding the cats litter box), or knew he was fully trained in a command (Come, Sit, Stay), I then turned to the "Momma Dog" technique. Grab by the scruff of the neck (like Momma or a higher in the pack dog would do), a little shake and a deep, loud , gutteral "FOH!" He should go into a submissive down, if not, I put him in it. Sometimes he just goes down, others he resists a little, and always yowls bloody murder. Once he settles down and submitts, he goes in his crate for a while. These were acts of willful disobediance that he is being punished for, or ignoring commands that I am sure he knows when he doesn't have the e-collar on.

I still use this and he is a full grown dog.

Yes, this is another good method that plays on instinct hard-coded into the dog's brain. For more information, check out these two articles:

http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/pupbiting.htm
http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/pubbite2.htm

dixieboy · Post by **dixieboy** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:18 am

Thanks a lot for the help.........Ayres, those articles are great.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:08 pm

Steven,

I agree that you should try to stop it but was just trying to say it is a normal problem and no one has ever been able to stop a pup from chewing or biting because it is part of being a pup. I too repromand when it gets too rough. still have to do that with Rush sometimes.

I think Aprock's idea is good too but i don't like to use the crate as part of the punishment. Want the crate to remain a safe haven in the pups mind and a place he feels safe in. Final word is keep working to stop it and you will succeed in about a year and a half. But I do think it is important to express your displeasure when it happens and meet out what punshipment you deem necesary to try and quide the puppy into the model you want.

Ezzy

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:08 pm

Steven,

I agree that you should try to stop it but was just trying to say it is a normal problem and no one has ever been able to stop a pup from chewing or biting because it is part of being a pup. I too repromand when it gets too rough. still have to do that with Rush sometimes.

I think Aprock's idea is good too but i don't like to use the crate as part of the punishment. Want the crate to remain a safe haven in the pups mind and a place he feels safe in. Final word is keep working to stop it and you will succeed in about a year and a half. But I do think it is important to express your displeasure when it happens and meet out what punshipment you deem necesary to try and quide the puppy into the model you want.

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:32 pm

I agree wholeheartedly Al. I think we were just looking at the problem from two different ends. I understand what angle you were coming from.