how to teach your dog to point

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:38 pm

How do we teach our dog to point or help him to point? He use to point at this fethery toy we had, and now he doesnt point anything? Where do we begin what do we use?

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:40 pm

What is the dog's background? Did his parents hunt/point?

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:49 pm

Have you had the dog around birds?
You don't necessarily want your dog to point toys and everything else. Just the birds.
Another sometimes difficult response will be that you can't really teach a dog to point. It is a response that dogs do when scenting (and sometimes seeing) prey. You can however build and instill confidence in your dog when he/she stops to check a bird out. You may never get a "show" point, but you might get a straight tail or stretched out legs or neck.

Post by **slistoe** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:30 pm

Did he ever point the scent of a bird? Looking at a feathery toy is not the same thing.

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:42 pm

he did come from hunters. HE has sniffed out pigeons once he hunted and found them no problem def using his nose and the wind. he kinda looked at them cautiously like what am I suppose to do . and same with the next pigeon that was planted. He has been on wild dove and snooted around the farm where my cousin lives and kinda chased them. but so far no big point. he is 5.5 months I know he real new to birds. The main question really is how do I go about setting him up to learn this on his own? I m getting pigeons next week won't be able to let them fly though their to breed. assuming I had birds I can use anyway I I want what should I do? just plant them and let him run around and find them ? we have been planting a clothe bumper with quail sent all around and he picks that sent up super easy and will find it in a hurry even if I put it up in a tree. so I don't think his nose is broken lol

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:46 pm

sorry my typing sounds so illiterate im doing all of this from a phone.

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:36 pm

Stang's wife here.

The feathered toy was kind of an accident and then we saw him point and it was cute but a few weeks and then we realized that he doesnt need to be pointing at it so we took it away. It has been over 3 months since he has seen it.

He will point at the cat, mostly. As my husband mentioned, he is able to find the canvas bumper with quail scent on it very quickly and easily. Even if it is 6' in a tree. Today we had him on the CC and hubby would plant the bumper and I was holding the CC and when he found the bumper with his nose, I would hold the CC so he had to stop and not actually grab the bumper. It worked so so I guess but he seems to have a very natural and strong retreiving ability and he moreso wants to get the bumper and bring it (and sometimes play with it first as hes still a pup).

We never did the wing on a string thing as so many people seem to say not even to bother with it. He was shown a duck wing at Tday in GA when my cousins hubby had killed some ducks but the pup wasnt quite sure what to do. We could hide it in some brush and again, he would find it with his nose, but no real pointing. When we first threw it on the ground, he kind of pointed at it, though he was on a leash. But once he got into that stature, we could slack the leash, and he would hold. Thats about it.

I will post the pics but NO LAUGHING! He is a little wimpy about the cold (hes a southern boy what can I say) and it was pretty darn cold AND rainy the whole time we were up in GA so yes, he has a sweater.

Like Randy (subatomic) said, he has been on pigeons once and they were planted in cages and one had its wings twisted so it couldnt fly. He used his nose and found them but was cautious but brave when he found them but again no pointing. When I go down next weekend to pick up our female, he will be put on some pigeons again. Then we either have to wait until our breeding pair hatches some or I can see about taking him to a private hunt place where they have like 3000 pen raised quail and put him out with some of those and possibly an older GSP if that is a good idea.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:30 pm

I gaurantee you this dog will point birds. Plant some birds and lead the dog to the area of a bird. Make sure you have control of him so he can't catch the bird. If you have access to a launcher, plant a bird in the launcher, lead the dog around on the cc until he scents the bird. As soon as he shows signs of scenting the bird, pop the launcher. A few times of this and he will begin pointing at first scent. Having said that, I would be more interested in getting him excited over the birds than the pointing at this young age. Just tease him with some birds, toss one in the air and let him chase a little. Again keep him on the cc so he can't catch the birds. Once you have him bird crazy, he will begin hunting and pointing. Pointing is something you can't teach a dog. Good luck,

Charlie

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:34 pm

So is it ok that he was going NUTS about the bumper today when he started sniffing it out? He was so excited to smell around for it and find it. He did also see this big egret looking thing in our pond today and took off chasing it (the bird was way bigger than him!).

Post by **slistoe** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:56 pm

I don't see any purpose in trying to have him "point" a retrieving tool.

Get some birds and do as birddogger has outlined. You can dizzy pigeons and have a helper lift them with a toe to get them to fly, you can get some velcro harness from a dog training supply company such as http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Bird-Eq ... -cord.html and shake the bird out yourself, or you can attach a string to a baby sock to place over the pigeons head to hold the bird and release it. Of course manual launchers with a helper or remote launchers will also work.

At this point I would not worry too much about making him stay put after the bird flies. You can release the CC and let him trail it and chase (where you pick up your tools at the site and wait for him to return to the site of the bird looking for more and then you praise him), or hold the CC and go with him offering some gentle restraint till he stops (where you let him stand till the bird is out of sight and then praise him), depending on the safety of the location where you are training and the degree of "chase" the dog has in him - what you don't want to do at this point is convince the dog that birds are not fun.

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:59 pm

Getting the birds soon.

When he was on the pigeons he was allowed to chase them. Im horrible at guessing distance but he chased them for a good little ways and then came back to us. He was always allowed to see a young pigeon that wasnt flying yet. He just kind of sniffed it and pawed it and got excited and then we picked him up and took him away. He is def very excited about the birds.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:33 am

I expect you will see your puppy pointing birds soon, if you follow slistoe's advise. But remember not all dogs develop the same. Some take a little longer than others. In your case your dog is still just a baby. Be patient. It sounds like he has plenty of desire and that is the main thing IMO.

Charlie

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:57 am

How many free run walks has this pup had? Or is it alwasy on a leash?

Birds, Birds, Birds, as stated. But in the mean time take him to fields and woods let him explore and learn to use his nose. Chasing the egret shows he has some prey drive. The light needs to be switched on. He needs to figure out he can't catch the bird. So when he trys to move on a bird it needs to fly immediately, that is when he will start pointing. If you stop him on a bird that is not a point. No verbal commands let the pup learn. As said he need not be pointing inamate objects just birds.

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:21 am

Thanks for the replies !
I will pickup a manual launcher to start with. how long does it take to get a pair of pigeons breeding and hatching babies? Then how long before they can start flying?

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:15 am

LoveMyGSPs wrote:

That's a good looking dog, and that is one cool sweater.
The dog is still very young (5.5 months right?). I think the real thing to draw from all of these helpful tips is to relax for a month or so and let the dog run. He needs to do the bird finding right now, it will be your turn to help him out in good time. I would only use the leash/check cord for training opportunities and basic yard breaking. Once you get the dog to "Come" and "Heel" you should be able to hit the field and let him go nuts.

Slistoe, thanks for the link! I've been looking for something like that. Does the release snap just pop off? It looks so light you might tug the bird with it

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:28 am

Thanks!

We have taken him to a nature preserve and walked the trails. We left the cord on him at first but we eventually took it off. He would only range out about 25 feet and wouldnt really go into the thick cover. He def seems to err on the side of caution.

He def has a prey drive as he loves to chase the cat, crickets, frogs, moths, any birds in the pond, and these sand piper looking birds I have in my pastures. Hopefully once we get our own birds he will figure out he cant chase them.

Thanks for the replies though. We will keep chuggin along!

BTW got the sweater at Petsmart!

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:50 pm

LoveMyGSPs wrote:and these sand piper looking birds I have in my pastures.

Hey just a heads up, that might be Snipe in your back yard. If so, what fun! Wouldn't get the dog on them, but those things can hone your gunning skills to pro-level the way they weave back and forth.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:43 pm

BTW got the sweater at Petsmart!

Why a sweater in sunny Florida?

Ezzy

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:04 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
BTW got the sweater at Petsmart!
Why a sweater in sunny Florida?

Ezzy

That was in north georgia we got it prior to the trip we took for thanksgiving. He is quite the sissy at times.

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:23 pm

Sunny fla my arse!!! Tomorrows high is in the 40s with lows around 28 and Wednesday night lows around 21! Thats insane for Fla!

And it appears the birds we have are called Killdeer. They look just like sandpipers (heck maybe they are the same thing not sure). Heres a pic of one I found online...

http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/6 ... eer700.jpg

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:43 pm

Were you able to find a recipe for them? Maybe killdeer purlo or killdeer pie?

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:24 pm

Oh the killdeer. Yeah don't shoot those

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:55 am

LoveMyGSPs wrote:Sunny fla my arse!!! Tomorrows high is in the 40s with lows around 28 and Wednesday night lows around 21! Thats insane for Fla!

And it appears the birds we have are called Killdeer. They look just like sandpipers (heck maybe they are the same thing not sure). Heres a pic of one I found online...

http://z.about.com/d/sanfrancisco/1/0/6 ... eer700.jpg

I noticed our dogs didn't stay out as long the other morning when it was 32 below but this morning two of them are out playing in the run but then it is 18 above. If it stays this nice we will go hunting tomorrow but no sweaters

Have a good one

Ezzy

R-Middleton · Post by **R-Middleton** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:47 pm

There are some pretty good training videos around, George Hickox, Rick Smith to name a couple. You might also try to find a Pro Trainer in your area, he might help you with a program, That is what I do for new people that need help and don't want to send their dog to a trainer.
I would start with some basic obedience, and find a place to let him learn to hunt and have a good time. The obedience should be contained to the yard with not much hacking at him when he is running and having a good time. I learned a lot of what I know from books and videos and talking to trainers that knew what they were talking about. You will hear a lot of BS that you need to pick though.
Good luck

Ray Middleton

fratelle · Post by **fratelle** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:38 am

Hi I am still very new to this aswell and I came here for advice and your are in the right place. All those in this forum have helped me heaps I am from Australia so it all took longer. I started with the DVD perfect start & perfect finish brought and a bird launcher which I could only buy from the USA waited patiently for it to be shipped and just last night after a three month exercise buying pigeons homing them watching DVD my 7 mth GSP buddy pointed after his 3rd bird in the launcher it was worth the wait I did not believe it would work till I saw it AWRESOME he also held point with no help from me thanks to all here on GDF
Angelo

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:30 pm

I just thought I would update this.

Today I went down to get our female GSP at her foster moms. While there, we were able to put our male (dog in question in OP) on birds. Foster mom planted 3 pigeons in heavy cover, in a wooded area with hardly any wind (mainly b/c we are going to take him to a JH hunt test in Feb and she is the judge and knows that the grounds where the JH will be are heavy wooded, etc). He picked up the birds VERY quickly and chased when we let them fly and I was able to shoot the blank hand gun. The last pigeon he found, he locked up and pointed for about 5 seconds. Not bad for his 2nd time on birds, I guess? We got 6 birds sent home with us - 3 males and 3 females and in a few months we can start training with them (so they will home).

Good news is the female is approx 1.5 yrs old and has a strong prey drive and gets very staunch on birds/cats/pigs/etc.

donnie_19 · Post by **donnie_19** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:26 pm

Better make sure your pigeons have nested or you might not see them again. I had several I bought that were supposed to home after 30 days. At 45 days I opened the coop on afternoon and never saw those birds again. The only birds I have that home every time are the ones I raised.

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:53 pm

I think when we first fly them ill just send out 2 so in case they keep going ill still have 4 more. But maybe they will do some mateing and lay some eggs before long. Is there anything I need to do like put on some barry white or maybe an ambiance light? haha

Post by **slistoe** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:41 pm

donnie_19 wrote:Better make sure your pigeons have nested or you might not see them again. I had several I bought that were supposed to home after 30 days. At 45 days I opened the coop on afternoon and never saw those birds again. The only birds I have that home every time are the ones I raised.

That was always my understanding about homers. Talked with one fellow who had imported a racing pair from Germany. 15 years later they had not been flown - was afraid they wouldn't come back. Buy breeding stock and work with the offspring.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:50 pm

slistoe wrote:
donnie_19 wrote:Better make sure your pigeons have nested or you might not see them again. I had several I bought that were supposed to home after 30 days. At 45 days I opened the coop on afternoon and never saw those birds again. The only birds I have that home every time are the ones I raised.
That was always my understanding about homers. Talked with one fellow who had imported a racing pair from Germany. 15 years later they had not been flown - was afraid they wouldn't come back. Buy breeding stock and work with the offspring.

Good advice. My dealer always tells me that they will home to my house after 30 days. Now I know it's BS but we play the game. I'm sure I've paid for the same bird several times.

LoveMyGSPs · Post by **LoveMyGSPs** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:42 pm

We were told to keep them in for a few months. They are young birds - just started flying. We were also recommended to try to only work with the males as they are more likely to go back to the coop for their female. I know I also read that you can make a certain noise when you feed them so they associate that with food and then dont feed them before you work with them so they are hungry and will come back. We are in no rush though.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:33 am

I have bought young birds many timesthat have NOT been flown and flew them after month or so and they homed with no problem. But if you buy mature birds letting them nest is probably wise. I even lose one occasionally the first time they are out even when they are nesting.

Ezzy

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:57 am

PMing you, thanks Jonesy

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:42 pm

No big deal! I mean hey some pickup sooner than other but that doesnt mean it will be better in the longrun! I am satisfied with his progression

-Randy

rich · Post by **rich** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:11 pm

WHAT BREED IS THE DOG
MOST POINTERS POINT
TO STEADY YOUR POINTER YOU WILL NEED SOMEONE WITH POINTER DOG TRAINING EXPERIENCE
YOU WILL NEED TO GET YOUR DOG INTO LIVE PIGEONS OR WILD GAME BIRDS .
GET A GOOD POINTING DOG TRAINING DVD OR BOOK

texscala · Post by **texscala** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:57 pm

I am currently working on my first pointing dog. I feel there are many ways to help your dog hold point through flush. With a young dog I like the idea of getting the dog on lots and lots of wild birds. I really like to run my dog after hunting season is over and have her hold for long periods of time. It also allows me to scout areas and get pics of the dog on point. The wild birds do not tolerate mistakes by the dog and will fly away when the dog get to close.

After the dog has figured out to hold on point to avoid bumping birds I will use a few pigeons to steady the dog through flush and shot. I use a cc and once the dog establishes a point I will hold it tight through flush and shot so the dog stays steady. Once this is done I will leave the cc loose and flush winged birds that will lightly flush and walk to tempt the dog a bit. It has worked for me so far. I am hoping to have the dog completely broke by this summer (we are working on a little better retrieves right now) at which time she will be 2 years old. This video is from when she was just over a year.

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:47 pm

Nice work with the dog. The video was hilarious, I've had that happen to me with quail and it drove my dog nuts. Yours handled the situation quite well.

Rock · Post by **Rock** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:08 pm

I raise racing homers myself. Older birds you buy from someone else more than likely will no home to your coop and it's usually a pretty sure thing you will loose them if they were trained to others loft. You need to get or breed and raise squeakers and start letting them out when they are about 5-6 weeks old. Do not make them fly off. Let them come out on the landing board and fly when they are ready. They need to get used to the area and may not fly the first few times you open the trap for them. Eventually they will start to fly around the coop and then one day they will take off and fly further and longer.

You also need a drop trap or bobs and teach them how to enter to get back into the loft. Drop traps work better and birds naturally jump through with out any training for me. For bobs you have to push them through and get them to figure out how to use them or they may not ever go back in. If you get racers you will be able train them and gradually take them farther each time from home and they will beat you back home.

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:53 pm

Rock wrote:I raise racing homers myself. Older birds you buy from someone else more than likely will no home to your coop and it's usually a pretty sure thing you will loose them if they were trained to others loft. You need to get or breed and raise squeakers and start letting them out when they are about 5-6 weeks old. Do not make them fly off. Let them come out on the landing board and fly when they are ready. They need to get used to the area and may not fly the first few times you open the trap for them. Eventually they will start to fly around the coop and then one day they will take off and fly further and longer.

You also need a drop trap or bobs and teach them how to enter to get back into the loft. Drop traps work better and birds naturally jump through with out any training for me. For bobs you have to push them through and get them to figure out how to use them or they may not ever go back in. If you get racers you will be able train them and gradually take them farther each time from home and they will beat you back home.

I have a bob trap door on it right at the landing pad. More like a runway as long as i made it lol .

subatomicstang · Post by **subatomicstang** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:54 pm

texscala wrote:I am currently working on my first pointing dog. I feel there are many ways to help your dog hold point through flush. With a young dog I like the idea of getting the dog on lots and lots of wild birds. I really like to run my dog after hunting season is over and have her hold for long periods of time. It also allows me to scout areas and get pics of the dog on point. The wild birds do not tolerate mistakes by the dog and will fly away when the dog get to close.

After the dog has figured out to hold on point to avoid bumping birds I will use a few pigeons to steady the dog through flush and shot. I use a cc and once the dog establishes a point I will hold it tight through flush and shot so the dog stays steady. Once this is done I will leave the cc loose and flush winged birds that will lightly flush and walk to tempt the dog a bit. It has worked for me so far. I am hoping to have the dog completely broke by this summer (we are working on a little better retrieves right now) at which time she will be 2 years old. This video is from when she was just over a year.

YEs that video was funny "bleep" pigeons! Sometimes they are to easy going