I have picked up two books regarding "how to train your gun dog" and each book is so different from the other. One book says don't do any training for the first year.......the other book says to teach "sit, stay, heel, etc." during the first four months. I guess there is no correct answer and I am sure every book will give you a different opinion.......but this is making my head hurt!!!!
Which teaching technique and/or gun dog instructor did you use?
Thanks!!!
T2
When to start training and what to start with......
-
MelissaL
I have seen numerous posts regarding this. I have seen the Smartwork Series by Evan Graham suggested the most. I just got the first 2 books yesterday but haven't had a chance to start reading them yet. You can get them here:
http://store.yahoo.com/gundog/smforrevoiba.html
I have read Top Dog: Training the Retriever for Waterfowl and Upland Hunting by Joseph Middleton and found some very good information and illustrations.
I think that most people read a variety of books and follow whatever works best for them and their dog.
Melissa
http://store.yahoo.com/gundog/smforrevoiba.html
I have read Top Dog: Training the Retriever for Waterfowl and Upland Hunting by Joseph Middleton and found some very good information and illustrations.
I think that most people read a variety of books and follow whatever works best for them and their dog.
Melissa
T2,
I just started training last year, but I've done lots of training within that time. Anyway, I just wanted to give you my $.02.
For the most part, you will find that most everyone you talk to has their own training methods. I just watched tapes and talked to folks to see what worked for them. I had to pick methods that work for me and my dogs. I feel like training dogs can be like teaching people, you may have to adjust your teaching style to fit your audience.
As far as when to start training, I've heard a few really reputable trainers say they usually do not start dogs until they are a year of age. I started Bell early, because it was fun for the both of us. We always made sure we were having fun. When I could tell the one of us were not having fun, it was time to quit. We kept training in short 15 min periods, and while she was young, the training consisted of finding and fetching birds. At that young age, I didn't put her in some of the more intense training sessions like I do now.
Because of my lack of training experience, I also found that Bell knew more about how a bird dog should hunt than I did. Its strange/funny , but she just knew what to do. I remember watching the tapes thinking, how will I get her to do the pointing and retrieving? So I got my wing on a pole and off we went for our first training session. I was amazed! She just performed, hardly any training needed. I'm still amazed at these bird dogs. I guess thats why I love it like I do....
I just started training last year, but I've done lots of training within that time. Anyway, I just wanted to give you my $.02.
For the most part, you will find that most everyone you talk to has their own training methods. I just watched tapes and talked to folks to see what worked for them. I had to pick methods that work for me and my dogs. I feel like training dogs can be like teaching people, you may have to adjust your teaching style to fit your audience.
As far as when to start training, I've heard a few really reputable trainers say they usually do not start dogs until they are a year of age. I started Bell early, because it was fun for the both of us. We always made sure we were having fun. When I could tell the one of us were not having fun, it was time to quit. We kept training in short 15 min periods, and while she was young, the training consisted of finding and fetching birds. At that young age, I didn't put her in some of the more intense training sessions like I do now.
Because of my lack of training experience, I also found that Bell knew more about how a bird dog should hunt than I did. Its strange/funny , but she just knew what to do. I remember watching the tapes thinking, how will I get her to do the pointing and retrieving? So I got my wing on a pole and off we went for our first training session. I was amazed! She just performed, hardly any training needed. I'm still amazed at these bird dogs. I guess thats why I love it like I do....
-
icefire
Training or pressure?
I start "training" very early. walks in the field, teaching a pup its name,ect. 4-5 months actual bird introduction and move on to the launchers. all of this though is in non-corrected or pressure situations. the pup may have an e-collar on but will not have it used for a long time. The pressure parts of training, whoa/here ect. really depend on the dog. some can handle pressure at 6 months. others, may take a year or more before they are ready. if all the early fun good productive bird work has been done, when it actually comes time for corrective breaking of the dog, that segment should go rather quickly in most cases. The method that you use may determine a little when you start what but the best thing is to know when your dog is ready.
I start "training" very early. walks in the field, teaching a pup its name,ect. 4-5 months actual bird introduction and move on to the launchers. all of this though is in non-corrected or pressure situations. the pup may have an e-collar on but will not have it used for a long time. The pressure parts of training, whoa/here ect. really depend on the dog. some can handle pressure at 6 months. others, may take a year or more before they are ready. if all the early fun good productive bird work has been done, when it actually comes time for corrective breaking of the dog, that segment should go rather quickly in most cases. The method that you use may determine a little when you start what but the best thing is to know when your dog is ready.
. Nothing against Jon I nearly went to work for him a few years ago and like both him and Cindy very well, but dang every post 
.-
Country-Side Breeders
Ob. training is started as soon as they understand their name. I don't start field training until they are around 4-5 months old. And then, as icefire mentioned, it's fun training. There isn't reprimanding at this point. It's more to see what the dog knows and what we need to work on. The more you keep it fun, the easier it's going to be. I also don't do a lot of talking, but offer tons of praise. My husband is the talker, and it messes up the young pups...needless to say, he's not the one that gets to train the young ones. 
As Grant said, keep the sessions short and always end on a postitive note. Don't continue until the dog is strung out. You want to stop just as the dog is reaching its point of excitement. That way, the next time you go out, he/she is going to remember it being a fun thing to do.
I would suggest getting some birds, putting them down and see what happens. If there isn't any interest at all, the time's not right and you need to wait for the pup to get a bit older. In the meantime, you can continue working on the "yard" work...come, heel, no, whoa, retrieving, etc. Makes for a lot easier training when you get to the field. You might also want to take him/her out with a seasoned dog so that it can see the job that needs to be done. Young pups pick up a ton of info by hanging out with the older ones.
As Grant said, keep the sessions short and always end on a postitive note. Don't continue until the dog is strung out. You want to stop just as the dog is reaching its point of excitement. That way, the next time you go out, he/she is going to remember it being a fun thing to do. I would suggest getting some birds, putting them down and see what happens. If there isn't any interest at all, the time's not right and you need to wait for the pup to get a bit older. In the meantime, you can continue working on the "yard" work...come, heel, no, whoa, retrieving, etc. Makes for a lot easier training when you get to the field. You might also want to take him/her out with a seasoned dog so that it can see the job that needs to be done. Young pups pick up a ton of info by hanging out with the older ones.
-
icefire
Duane,
The man asked who! I was only answering his question. Unfortunatly I may be easy but I am not cheap so they wouldn't be able to afford me anyway! They have given me though a much clearer picture of how to get where I would like to be. They certianly are not the only good folks out there though!
The man asked who! I was only answering his question. Unfortunatly I may be easy but I am not cheap so they wouldn't be able to afford me anyway! They have given me though a much clearer picture of how to get where I would like to be. They certianly are not the only good folks out there though!
-
Wireviz_lady
pups
My pups were started on the wing before I brought them home sooo maybe 5 or 6 weeks. I do wing work and say whoa when they hit that perfect point. It is just inforcing what comes natualy at this point. I also jsut started them on quail.
On the other side of the spectrum is my 7 yr old Vizsla Jamie who's only exposure his first 3 years was during hunting season and just worked off of natural abilityand what we wanted in a feild dog. He has all the drive and could hunt with any MH V out there.
Really when it comes to pups if they dont got it then there is nothing to work with at those early stages but obedience. Get them used to the gun tho. Start with bubblewrap if you have to. Do it when they are having fun so they equate the load noise to fun times. Then you can work up to the starter pistol. I like to heave a feathered dummy up-fire the pistol and give command "dead bird" . which is what I use for my field retrieve command. It gets to the point that they will mark when they hear the fire. Of course what do I know. One trainer told me NOT to retireve birds until your dog is strong on point or they will be flushing all the time. I havent seen it but...
Bec
On the other side of the spectrum is my 7 yr old Vizsla Jamie who's only exposure his first 3 years was during hunting season and just worked off of natural abilityand what we wanted in a feild dog. He has all the drive and could hunt with any MH V out there.
Really when it comes to pups if they dont got it then there is nothing to work with at those early stages but obedience. Get them used to the gun tho. Start with bubblewrap if you have to. Do it when they are having fun so they equate the load noise to fun times. Then you can work up to the starter pistol. I like to heave a feathered dummy up-fire the pistol and give command "dead bird" . which is what I use for my field retrieve command. It gets to the point that they will mark when they hear the fire. Of course what do I know. One trainer told me NOT to retireve birds until your dog is strong on point or they will be flushing all the time. I havent seen it but...
Bec
Ice I missed that part I thought you were stating that Jon said the words in your longer post. I will admit I have never seen either of the Hanns videos but have heard some very good reviews on the second one from some real well known trainer though.
As to who I learned from well about 5 different men for the biggest part. JW Mc Glaughin an old meat dogs trainer with hands of silk, Delmar Smith who showed me about bringing along a pup to be it's best, Bill Trabue, Cliff Walling who has helped me in the trial world and breeding, and Travis Mauldin who was a big help in getting the best handle on a dog(travis is a cow dog man).
Take the best and absorb what is useful, and in dog training every littel snippet is useful at one time or another I have found.
As to who I learned from well about 5 different men for the biggest part. JW Mc Glaughin an old meat dogs trainer with hands of silk, Delmar Smith who showed me about bringing along a pup to be it's best, Bill Trabue, Cliff Walling who has helped me in the trial world and breeding, and Travis Mauldin who was a big help in getting the best handle on a dog(travis is a cow dog man).
Take the best and absorb what is useful, and in dog training every littel snippet is useful at one time or another I have found.
-
WildRose
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Outfitter/Guide Gsp Breeder/Trainer
Duane and I started much the same way, old cowboys, to teach how to "read a dog", and old gun dog trainers to teach me what to do with a birddog. I don't use any one person's method, but in nearly anyone's program there are good and bad points. Delmar's method is as good and proven as any out there, I just start them a whole lot younger than he ever did, but then I'm working only GSP's and not EP's or Es's and they are different dogs.
Training starts early, one thing I demand of all my dogs is that they simply learn to comply with "Here" very early. Whether I start working with a pup at eight to twelve weeks or a three year old that's where I start.
If you can simply get a pup to come when called and whoah when needed, you can do just about anything from there.
I begin with simply taking youngsters out to run dragging a lead to get them used to the pressue on their neck. After two or three good runs, and getting it tangled a few times they figure out it won't kill them.
As soon as we have them used to the check cord and responding to here, we reinforce "here" until it's automatic. That's when basic retriever training comes in starting with simple fetching. It comes easily with good natural retrievers and as long as it's steadily reinforced as being work, and not just play you can make a very reliable and good retriever out of a pup in just a few months.
I believe that the wing on a string has value where many do not, and like Viz lady I encorporate early whoah training along with it. You should never whoah a pupt to "make" it point, but once they are staunchly pointed quiet whoahing begins to make the association in their mind very quickly, and makes teaching backing a real breeze. I also like the fact that as adults when I whoah mine they freeze up almost as if on point expecting birds around instead of cowering fearing a shock or choking as all to many whoah breaking methods seem to inspire in dogs.
As soon as the pup is pointing good in the wing I take them out to let them chase a few wild birds. As soon as they figure out they can't catch them and that the only way they are gong to get their mouth on one is to have me involved we move right to work on planted and launcher birds and as quickly as possible introduce them to the gun.
Once the gun is properly introduced as soon as I get a good point and hold I'll kill a few birds for them and simply move right back to wild birds. I then alternate back and forth between the two as the pup develops and needs work on staunchness backing etc. After a full season of work we firm up everything and then of course training is reinforced throughout the dogs lifetime.
Keep training sessions short, I like to do things with as little pressure as possible all the way through. If you get frustrated and aggravated put the dog up for a while and start over. If at all possible end even the most frustrating sessions with something positive. CR
Training starts early, one thing I demand of all my dogs is that they simply learn to comply with "Here" very early. Whether I start working with a pup at eight to twelve weeks or a three year old that's where I start.
If you can simply get a pup to come when called and whoah when needed, you can do just about anything from there.
I begin with simply taking youngsters out to run dragging a lead to get them used to the pressue on their neck. After two or three good runs, and getting it tangled a few times they figure out it won't kill them.
As soon as we have them used to the check cord and responding to here, we reinforce "here" until it's automatic. That's when basic retriever training comes in starting with simple fetching. It comes easily with good natural retrievers and as long as it's steadily reinforced as being work, and not just play you can make a very reliable and good retriever out of a pup in just a few months.
I believe that the wing on a string has value where many do not, and like Viz lady I encorporate early whoah training along with it. You should never whoah a pupt to "make" it point, but once they are staunchly pointed quiet whoahing begins to make the association in their mind very quickly, and makes teaching backing a real breeze. I also like the fact that as adults when I whoah mine they freeze up almost as if on point expecting birds around instead of cowering fearing a shock or choking as all to many whoah breaking methods seem to inspire in dogs.
As soon as the pup is pointing good in the wing I take them out to let them chase a few wild birds. As soon as they figure out they can't catch them and that the only way they are gong to get their mouth on one is to have me involved we move right to work on planted and launcher birds and as quickly as possible introduce them to the gun.
Once the gun is properly introduced as soon as I get a good point and hold I'll kill a few birds for them and simply move right back to wild birds. I then alternate back and forth between the two as the pup develops and needs work on staunchness backing etc. After a full season of work we firm up everything and then of course training is reinforced throughout the dogs lifetime.
Keep training sessions short, I like to do things with as little pressure as possible all the way through. If you get frustrated and aggravated put the dog up for a while and start over. If at all possible end even the most frustrating sessions with something positive. CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people
-
Wireviz_lady
need to get back to work
Wow CR. I really need to get healthy and get back to training. Can you fill me in on the "launcher birds"?
Bec
Bec
-
Country-Side Breeders
-
WildRose
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Outfitter/Guide Gsp Breeder/Trainer
http://store.yahoo.com/gundog/dogquailluan.html Bird Launcher. This is the one I use. I have three launcher set, and they all work of a single remote. For the single trainer (no assistant) they are a godsend, you have to be careful and I don't like using them with young pups, as they can make quite a racket and scare a young dog (even worse than a cackling rooster) but once you are past the initial introduction they sure are a great additon to your training. Pricey for sure but well worth it! CR
There's a reason I like dogs better'n people