summer pigeons vs wild birds...

[wfkgsps]

Let me give everyone a little background first.
This spring/summer I began the process of breaking my first dog. He is a 4 year old GSP that passed his JH around year one, but I didn't have the time, resouces, or know-how to pursue the SH/MH level at that time. Fast-forward to this spring, I learned how to break a dog and was hooked. We worked from March on and by the end of the summer my dog was standing reliably on pigeons with a blank pistol. However, now that pheasant season is under way, he is breaking on the flush. He is being staunch on point...letting me flush, but breaks at the flush. I don't shoot...reset him...etc. so my question is this...
1. Do I need to stop with the wild birds and go back and make him more reliable in the training field? or
2. Keep using the wild birds as training...be patient...stay the course and eventually he will make the connection?

I don't really care that I'm not shooting birds...that has become a moot point...my concern is maybe he wasn't as reliable as I thought!

[Sharon]

This is VERY common and normal unless you have one of those "born broke" pups.
It's one thing to be working a pigeon or quail but seeing a big , cackling pheasant take off is another story. ( I get excited too.

Just my opinion but I don't go back to pigeons because the dog will be staunch on pigeons. What's the point?

Work the wild birds but you need to have a way to control your dog when he breaks so he doesn't get away with it . (e -collar, cc ) I sometimes attach the cc while the dog is pointing ( He doesn't care ; he's mesmirized.) and have someone else flush / use starter pistol , while I handle the dog

Some folk use chukar after pigeon as it is a nice transition.
Some folk buy pheasant and work the dog on pheasant in a controlled situation before hitting the wilds.

[wems2371]

We had the very same problem. Dog was steady to flush and to wing on pigeons for a few months. Took her out with some training pheasants in October. First bird, she took off when the bird came up from the flush. Second bird, she took off mid-flush. She just couldn't resist that big bird taking off, and that was the end of that. Now when we're out hunting, if she goes on point, I quietly put a flank cord on--and my husband does the flush/shooting. Works great if you've got two people. I'm sure our dogs will come back to their senses with a little guidance and more pheasant encounters. Denise

[snips]

If you used the ecollar in your initial training then I would use it when the birds are in the air and dog breaks foreward. Give a Whoa and follow up.

[RayGubernat]

Agree with Snips.

If the dog has had a thorough course in whoa(which it seems it has) and you have an ecollar on the dog, then when the dog breaks...nick it until it stops, set it back, style it up and make it stand there. You are not disciplining the dog around birds, you are disciplining the dog for failing to stand still(whoa) which is an obedience command. Then physically(tap on flank or head) AND verbally (OK, allright or whatever you use) release the dog to continue hunting or...better yet, especially if you are going to do hunt tests or trials...heel the dog away and then cut it loose down the path.

Be patient. It may take a few for the dog to get the idea that it also has to stop and stand for a phez.

If you have a bold, tough dog, you might put it on a checkcord and stop the chase that way. It would be quicker but you might just take something out of the dog so be careful with that.

RayG

[wfkgsps]

Thanks for the help.

If you have a bold, tough dog, you might put it on a checkcord and stop the chase that way.

Lets just say he about dislocated both of my shoulders when he hit the end of the cc!

You are not disciplining the dog around birds, you are disciplining the dog for failing to stand still(whoa) which is an obedience command.

That's what I was afraid of, but you explained it so I know I'm on the right track...just need patience...like you said!

[Vom Britt]

Dennis Brath a well known pro here in Wi. a few years back when talking birddawgs, mentioned to me that he was losing style on point with his hunt test dogs because he was knicking to early on the break. So he adjusted by letting the dog get into the the chase and once in it started using the collar. I have used his method since that day because it works. Just my two coppers

Bob

[topher40]

Wild birds are the best teachers and they are "free" :roll: . Stay away from the pheasants if you can this year and concentrate on quail they require less of a learning curve and are easier for young dogs. Its time for baptism by fire for your young pup.